Let's compare Muhammad Ali vs George Foreman to Wladimir Klitschko vs Jean-Marc Mormeck

In my article Muhammad Ali’s heavyweight record in a nutshell I described how modern fans would view the opponents of Ali, would Ali fight in our times.

Let's make another comparison. Let's compare Ali's hallmark fight against ·George Foreman to Wlad's stay busy fight against ·Jean-Marc Mormeck.

The fight Klitschko vs Mormeck has been called…

  • "an embarrassing and pathetic mismatch"
  • "an absurd mismatch"
  • "a gross mismatch"
  • "a disgusting mismatch"
  • "a stay busy fight"
  • and Mormeck has been called "a fat bum when Wlad fought him"
  • (all original quotes)

Yet Mormeck had won 6 cruiserweight championships, which during the era of Muhammad Ali would be considered "6 world heavyweight titles".

Due to a change in the definition of "heavyweight" we have nowadays the bizarre situation, that what we call "cruiserweight", has been called "heavyweight" in Ali's times. And what was called "heavyweight" in Ali's times would run as "cruiserweight" now, since borderline boxers (around 210 lbs) like Ken Norton (median fighting weight 209 lbs) or Joe Frazier (median fighting weight 205 lbs) would fight other borderline boxers under the promotion "cruiserweight".

Mormeck would be heavyweight champ back then, and Ali's opponents like Joe Frazier would be probably nothing more than cruiserweight champs nowadays.

Even more important: Cruisers nowadays undergo an artificial weight loss days (sometimes hours) before the weigh-in, and then at fight night they weigh 10-30 lbs more. Therefore a lot of Mormeck's fights would not only have been called "heavyweight" in Ali's times, but they actually were heavyweight even in our times. Or did you think that the world cruiserweight title fight Jean-Marc Mormeck vs O'Neil Bell was really 198 lbs vs 198 lbs?


So what would a bout Mormeck vs Ali mean?

It would mean that Ali would have fought one of the best opponents he has ever faced. In fact Muhammad Ali never won against someone at real heavyweight 200×2 who had been a 6x championship winner and a unified champion.

Additionally Mormeck would have been one of the heaviest (heavier than Sonny Liston, Joe Frazier and Ken Norton, and only 1 lbs lighter than George Foreman's average fighting weight in the 1970s) and possibly the most athletic guy Muhammad Ali ever KO'ed.

Take a look at this visual comparison:

Ali vs Foreman ("Rumble in the Jungle"):


Jean-Marc Mormeck vs Wladimir Klitschko

THAT'S what I am talking about. AliFants live in some fantasy land, where Mormeck (216 lbs, 6 world title wins) is "a fat bum", yet Foreman (220 lbs, 3 world title wins) is an out-of-the-world athlete.

Mormeck vs Wlad, which was merely a stay busy fight

  • featured more resume'ness (13 combined world title wins vs 23 combined world title wins, nearly twice as many) than Ali vs Foreman
  • beats Ali vs Foreman out of the water when it comes to athleticity and heavyweight'ness
  • featured better performance (faster pace, faster KO)

Just imagine Wlad would have rope-a-doped the whole fight against Mormeck as did Ali vs Foreman. Klitschko haters would get epileptic seizures how boring Wlad kills the sport.

That's how much the division has changed: What was considered a hallmark of an era (Ali vs Foreman) would be nowadays a pretty unathletic, pretty light bout, pretty boring and even a proof of a terrible era.

That's how much the division changed: Wlad's stay busy fights > Ali's hallmark fights.

One could even make the case that a win of Muhammad Ali against Jean-Marc Mormeck would have been Ali's greatest heavyweight win of his entire career.


People are so deluded by Ali's opponents' FAME NAMES and so brainwashed by the mantras "Wladimir Klitschko fights BUMS" and "The Klitschko era is the worst era in heavyweight history" that they start to laugh when you told them that…

  • Jean-Marc Mormeck would probably be Muhammad Ali's greatest win
  • Jean-Marc Mormeck would be a highlight of Muhammad Ali's career
  • Jean-Marc Mormeck would be a proof of the superiority of the Muhammad Ali era.

It's inconceivable to today's fans because they have been completely brainwashed of what is going on now and what was going on 40-50 years ago.


Read also

Let's compare Muhammad Ali vs George Foreman to Wladimir Klitschko vs Jean-Marc Mormeck, 4.6 out of 5 based on 10 ratings
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Comments (19)

  • Honza says:
    [ip2username: Biku Mapy]
    #7077 Honza (2014-04-02nd)

    Again thank you for your stupid opinion and say hello to those who pay you because this is unbelievable. Of course that Wlad would be booed if he would do rope a dope because he was fighting oponent who was several inches smaller and a lot of pounds lighter you idiot. George was ko machine as he proved before and after that as well. At the same time Wlad was asking for dq for his sh*tty performance against Povetkin (but of course you will never admit that because you are trying to pretend that Wlad has no bad performances at all). So is Mormeck better fighter than George? No. Is he better than Muhammad? No. Was he one of worse oponents of Wlad? Yes.
    Your love for Klitschko and weight closes your sences IMO.

    • Admin says:
      [ip2username: Suva Mywo]
      #7078 Admin (2014-04-02nd)
      Of course that Wlad would be booed if he would do rope a dope because he was fighting oponent who was several inches smaller

      Thank you for acknowledging
      1. that rope-a-doping against Foreman is boo-worthy
      2. that Foreman is so much smaller than Wlad.

      However you miss the point.

      Even if Wlad would rope-a-dope against a taller opponent modern fans would dis Wlad.

      So is Mormeck better fighter than George? No.

      Of course Mormeck is a better fighter. Not necessarily a better heavyweight, but Mormeck has the better boxing resume. And additionally it's uncertain that Mormeck would lose against Foreman. Let's not forget that Foreman had his difficulties and limitations, too.

      Was he one of worse oponents of Wlad? Yes.

      Exactly my point.

      • Honza says:
        [ip2username: Kote Zivu]
        #7079 Honza (2014-04-02nd)

        Seš kretén. Víš to?

        • Honza says:
          [ip2username: Kote Zivu]
          #7081 Honza (2014-04-02nd)

          that Foreman is so much smaller than Wlad.

          Lighter not so much smaller. 3 inches difference is not same as 5 inches (George a Mormeck) let alone 8 inches (between Wlad a Mormeck).

          Let's not forget that Foreman had his difficulties and limitations,

          Yeah he struggled against fighters with comperable size not guy who wasnt even legit six footer.

          Even if Wlad would rope-a-dope against a taller opponent modern fans would dis Wlad.

          No they dis Wlad when he is grabbing and wearnig oponents down everytime they try to strike because his inside is nonexistent as he showed few times. Ali also had little to no inside.

          • Tommo says:
            [ip2username: Xydo Kedi]
            #7620 Tommo (2014-10-21st)

            Prime Foreman lost to Jimmy Young, whom Mormeck could definitely beat any day of the week.

            Big 90's George, before he shock KO'ed Moorer was getting pulverised to bits the whole fight, an opponent pretty comparable to Mormeck.

            So with an open mind, it deserves proper reflection whether Foreman could really beat HW Mormeck.

            In terms of boxing skills, Mormeck is way WAY better than Foreman, as well as athleticity. Foreman only LEARNED how to box in his 40's!

  • Honza says:
    [ip2username: Muza Syvo]
    #7087 Honza (2014-04-03rd)

    It's inconceivable to today's fans because they have been completely brainwashed of what is going on now and what was going on 40-50 years ago.

    Same way you are trying to brainwash any other fan than Klitschko fan. You proved absolutely nothing with this article. Nothing. Only how stupid you can be. I said can be because when you sometimes leave Muhammad and Wlad out of picture you can be good with your analyzes. But this article, the one about Muhammad rematches or his oponents by today view, about Ali racism are worst piece of biased view on one boxer and everything he represents. Speaking of Mormeck. I can name two much better boxers with similiar size: James Toney and Mike Tyson.

    • Tommo says:
      [ip2username: Luxa Xyso]
      #7729 Tommo (2014-11-30th)

      Yeah, I definitely agree Toney and Tyson are better than Mormeck.

      Unfortunately though, that neither proves or disproves the comparison with Foreman.

      I am certainly not thinking Mormeck thrashes Foreman or anything, but I am thinking that this fight does deserve careful consideration, that's all.

      Because Mormeck is bigger than all of those Golden era fighters, really. Even when he was a Cruiserweight, he reinflated on fight night to exactly the same weight as the 66-67 Ali! But of course hit much harder, was faster, more athletic etc. Except Ali always had his range advantage over Mormeck of course.

      Then when you consider the HW version of Mormeck, a ripped 216lbs on a 6'1" frame, well, "Prime" Foreman never once flogged out any opponent like that, not one as skilled and in shape as Mormeck either. He was done in not just by Ali but also by Jiimmy Young, a featherfist bum, who an objective fan will have to assume Mormeck would KO. IF Ali and Young can get Foreman, Mormeck could!

      Also considering old Foreman, I think Mormeck is comparable to Michael Moorer, who was beating up Foreman badly until George landed that lucky big punch so you know…

      It's worth considering, that's all.

      • Honza says:
        [ip2username: Ryvo Bedi]
        #7770 Honza (2014-12-26th)

        HW version of Mormeck, a ripped 216lbs on a 6'1" frame???
        I dont know what hapenned Carl but Mormeck is not that tall at all.
        So you know Moorer was heavyweight champion and southpaw. He for f*ck says had beaten Evander. Who was Mormeck best oponent? Haye. And he got his ass kicked. George had beaten Moorer so what. One of the best punches of all time.
        But Mormeck of course. Just jump on Admin band wagon Carl if ypou think Wlad is so great. He is. So was George and Muhammad.

  • Big-E - - L-Train says:
    [ip2username: Viu Taxy]
    #7251 Big-E - - L-Train (2014-06-08th)

    Thank you for speaking what we all should know. But one thing i do wonder… Some medium sized boxers tend to hit hard, even when there limited with small body sizes… i think of Hearns for example, Or maybe Tyson probably. But what is the explanation for that? I kind of think it could be that those guys have great hand-eye-coordination, time:ing and reflexes to hit that hard. In the case for most guys, lack of coordination and explosiveness limits their true power which
    their mass can provide them, but for some, they tend to access all the potential there bodies can supply them in the hitting motion. And I also think that, in smaller men, it is more common that they can reach there limits because of the lack of clumsiness bigger men more often have problems with. (Spare special cases such as the klitschko brothers which i think both have: big, strong AND athletic bodies with top coordination.)

    • Tommo says:
      [ip2username: Pidu Majy]
      #7336 Tommo (2014-06-22nd)

      Yes it isn't that weight is the only factor, but all else equal, the heavier man will. Many other factors come into play after weight like explosiveness and technique, timing and accuracy.

      There are 3 excellent articles on expertboxing called Why weights wont increase punching power which explain power beautifully.

  • robwill says:
    [ip2username: Vura Pyvo]
    #7686 robwill (2014-11-08th)

    What an astounding waste of energy ! Curious to know how many hours it takes you to compile these stats – to eventualy, as predictable from the bigining, prove nothing.
    Since you called Ali a coward and unathletic, you 've lost any bit of credit you could hope. Anybody who has ever spared on a ring, even as a non competitor, knows that no boxer on earth has never been a coward – whatever his skill, power or stamina. More, what kind of stupid f*cking idiot would believe that a coward would face oponent like Liston, Frazier and Foreman ?
    About Ali unathletic, nothing to say – just laugh ! You think there is no real athlet without prominent muscles and six-packed tab… What a sh*t ! See how the "unathletic" Calzaghe dominated the bodybuilt Roy Jones Jr, for example. Anyway, Ali WAS very well muscled as you can see on any fighting picture – even Ray Charles could !
    And where are you taking in acount the fact that title fights used to last 15 rounds by the Ali's time, vs 12 todays ? Nowhere, you stats bullsh*tter !
    You really sounds like an ignorant as*hole who never approached a couple of gloves less than 10 miles away.
    And it is really sorrying, cause your purpose is very interesting, and you obviously give it a lot of work, patience and energy, which has to be respected. But we are unfortunately still looking for the "objectivity" you sold us !

  • Perry says:
    [ip2username: Mole Diru]
    #7760 Perry (2014-12-20th)

    You leave out a very important point. Ali and Foreman were two of the greatest hwt fighters ever to live. Mormeck is not in the top 1000. Being a all time great fighter means just that….speed, durability, being able to take terrible punishment and not quit, cleverness, hitting power. You look at physiques, weight, height…..none of which means the fighter can fight. Your web site is a complete waste of time. Learn what great boxing means…..right now you have no clue.

    • Tommo says:
      [ip2username: Wuta Syno]
      #7772 Tommo (2014-12-27th)

      There is no such thing as an "All Time Great" fighter.

      Because it takes absolutely no account to become one of anything that comes after.

      Mormeck was faster than Ali and Foreman.
      Dunno who was more durable, I'd say Foreman would have been the most durable but there's no evidence to suggest Ali was more durable than Mormeck.

      Mormeck never quit and was a multiple world champ.

      Mormeck was a smarter boxer than Ali or Foreman by FAR.

      Mormeck probably didn't hit as hard as Foreman but he DEFINITELY hit harder than Ali.

      Mormeck's physical parameters have much to do with his boxing performance. He is a multiple world champ, this is not a guy from the pub. Mormecks boxing record, a good one, vs opponents the same size on average than Ali's opponents (in fact BIGGER on average slightly) but much better skilled and more athletic.

      This is probably the best boxing site ever constructed and the author probably the foremost expert on boxing in the game today. A thorough researcher.

      The second you mentioned "ATG" as a proof, you exposed yourself as a moron!

      There is a place for you. It's called "History or Classic" depending on what rock you crawled from.

  • Aswin Kini MK says:
    [ip2username: Tula Yjo]
    #7806 Aswin Kini MK (2015-01-20th)

    Back with your Ali-bashing yeah????

    ok, lemme give an example……. An American President in 1949 drew a salary of $1,00,000. Today, an ordinary software developer draws more. So, in your language, I would say that America was a poor country because they managed to pay even $1,00,000 as salary to their President??????

    Read the above paragraph a hundred times and it will never make sense? Why, because I am comparing the salary of an American President in 1949 and a software developer's salary in 2015 without even considering the most basic factors:
    1) Cost of living
    2) Economic situation

    Similarly, let us now come to your argument.
    You say that Mormeck would have been a heavyweight in 1980 without considering the most basic fact that people in 1970s and 80s didn't have access to the advanced nutrition and training methods. Plus, blacks in 1980 had a far rougher deal than the black boxers that are present today.

    In other words, a person of Ali's talent would have weighed 230-240 comfortably if he had trained and boxed in today's condition (You cannot fault Ali for having been born in 1942).

    Boxing organizations created the Cruiserweight division for a specific reason (The heavyweights were getting biggers, the lightheavyweight division limit was only below 176 pounds, any boxers who weighed more than 177 was forced to fight as a heavyweight, which presented great danger to their life) This is due to a fact that boxers get heavier day by day, not that their talent increases.

    Bermane Stiverne, the first Haiti-born boxer to become a belt holder, weighed around 230+ pounds during his bout with Deontay Wilder (Who weighed in 221+ pounds), but that didn't stop him from jabbing Bermane to death. Does that mean Deontay is a great champ? No, he was just the one with the bigger size and jab….. Being heavier, taller, or having a great reach doesn't make you a great boxer.

    Having said that Wladmir is an ATG, but that doesn't mean you keep comparing him to past heavyweights and keep demeaning them to make Wladmir better. Be objective, not subjective.

  • Aswin Kini MK says:
    [ip2username: Tula Yjo]
    #7807 Aswin Kini MK (2015-01-20th)

    "Mormeck never quit and was a multiple world champ.

    Mormeck was a smarter boxer than Ali or Foreman by FAR.

    Mormeck probably didn't hit as hard as Foreman but he DEFINITELY hit harder than Ali.

    Please provide proof?? Did you measure their punches or punch resistance? How do you know Ali punched less harder than Mormeck.

    You say Mormeck never quit, so did Ali. He had to retire from the Larry Holmes fight because his condition (Parkinson's disease) affected his motor reflexes badly. If you consider Ali a quitter then you might as well as call Vitali Klitschko a quitter because he injured his rotator cuff so badly and had to retire during his bout with Chris Byrd

    Do you even understand boxing or just comment for the sake of it?

    • Honza says:
      [ip2username: Lymo Teji]
      #7824 Honza (2015-02-20th)

      Welcome back Aswin and thank you for support. You always been a good one. Tommo on the other hand started to trash Ali WAY too much.

    • Tommo says:
      [ip2username: Miku Paxy]
      #7829 Tommo (2015-02-21st)

      Where is the converse proof that Ali could hit harder than Mormeck?

      I think common sense should be exercised here.. Take a look at Mormeck.. Take a look at Ali..

      I would say that's case closed!

      No.. I guess I cannot really bash Ali for quitting against Larry Holmes. Although the mere fact that a Parkinson's riddled fighter was actually challenging for the HW championship of the world is a sign of a pretty weak era don't you think? And if you excuse Ali for taking the fight with his condition then you ought to excuse Vitali for taking his Byrd fight with his pre-existing condition as well. It's all just spin Aswin!

      As for your last comment I wont rubbish you in return, I don't sink that low.

      But what I will do is point out in your previous reply to admin that obviously he is referring to a clash between fighters AS THEY WERE, not as they MIGHT have been under the conditions of the day.

      Those are completely different things. You yourself might NOT be making such "as they were" comparisons. But as you would certainly know Aswin, a lot of nostalgic posters on forums DO really believe Muhammad to be "Da Greatest!" as he was. That has always been Admin's point of contention I believe.

      It's kind of like this…

      Take Muhammad Ali… Make him half a foot taller and 50lbs heftier and stronger, paint him white, THERE YOU HAVE IT! Tyson Fury!!! ;)

  • Steve says:
    [ip2username: Zuka Lypo]
    #7894 Steve (2015-06-06th)

    George was half animal half monster.He did not know how to fight when he was young.He still knocked almost everyone out.When he learned to conserve energy till bomb time and shorten up his punches he moved levels up in skill. His fight record makes him the best puncher of all time and I think top three with Klitchko and Ali. Klitcko doesnt have Alis skill or speed but he has reach and size and height. Ali wore Foreman out because Foreman wouldnt slow down.
    With each in their prime and the ref calling Klitchko and Ali for hooking the back of the neck and riding their opponent like a pony, I think those three would have close fights. Of course George would have to be aware that he should pace himself. I also think George would need to be at his natural weight of 250 or 260 and not slimmed down for speed that he never had. Georges low blows would have to be called.I never could tell if he was doing it on purpose. When he gets tired he punches low.If you try to face George he will wear you down with bombs and you will drop. Everyone got to hit George he was slow.If Georges opponent reaches the end they gave a 50/50 chance of winning.Most dont. I think fights between those three would be great.These young guys try to cap the prior era I dont know with you tube how you could deny Alis speed and skill or Georges power.If Ken norton had a better chin he would be there too.He really was a puncher with rediculous hand speed and off the chart reflexes that loved to brawl and a jab as strong as most guys hook. Take a look at Marciano punching in slow motion ,it is grotesque what he did to his victims.He had a freakish high speed punch power, different than George..The reason I dont put him on the list is he was so short he could hardly reach these guys.Watch some old fights boys.

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