Joe Frazier vs Muhammad Ali: 2 overrated featherfists in an overrated fight

LET ME BE blunt: Muhammad Ali vs Joe Frazier (1971-03-08) is overrated. And since good-old-time fetishists seriously call it "Fight of the century" it's even GROSSLY OVERRATED.

Boxing forums like EastSideBoxing.com and BoxingScene.com (as great as they may be) DO DELETE CRITICISM and DO BAN POSTERS

  • who criticize Ali
  • or criticize Frazier
  • or criticize Ali vs Frazier.

 

Hence you will not find objective information about this fight in most of US-American forums or from any US-American "expert" because US-Americans GO AFTER CRITICS (by deleting posts or by banning users).

Thus any "expert" you might find in forums is already the filtered leftover who was ALLOWED to post only positive (or barely negative) information about this fight.

As a general rule: US-American boxing forums are usually an "ALI RESERVE".

Don't take anyone serious who

  • praises Frazier
  • or Ali
  • or Frazier vs Ali
  • or any other boxer of the 1970s

since this praiser simply may lack objective information as free speech is limited by forum moderators (or might have other reasons that I mention at Boxing eras (6) Is heavyweight boxing dead or dying?)

Thus you will encounter usual brainwash about this fight like the following without much counter-opinion:

  • "There will never be another fight like Ali-Frazier again"
  • "An event so big it was one that would never be matched in their lifetime."
  • "The two black men… gave way more for their cause than any paid performer has before or since"
  • "Wlad and Haye couldnt carry Ali's and Joe Fraziers jock straps regardless of how hard they tried!!!"
  • "Adding anymore excitement to a fight would be a fantasy."
  • "fight of the century, indeed! and, the heavyweight division was at its all-time pinacle in both depth & greatness"
  • "That was boxing, best vs the best, prime vs prime, hate vs hate, 15 rounds of heart, blood and sole. ALI VS SMOKIN JOE, was the very definition of boxing. No other bout in the history of time is a MATCH."
  • "trained to perfection for 15 rounds of all out action,never a dull moment"
    (all original quotes)

Yes, it's the typical nonsense by

  • the American Mythology Mill
  • the Hollywood Fantasy Factory
  • and the 1970s Hero Hype Machine.

I am just waiting for the day when they will claim the fight was the reason why the Vietnam war ended and slavery was abolished.

However, someone said that "Ali vs Frazier was overrated and amateurish" thus before we continue let me make clear that I consider this fight indeed OVERRATED but not AMATEURISH.

 

 

The war of the BUTTER-flies

Let me start my analysis with something that American boxing fans hate to hear:

Both fighters were chubby.

Muhammad Ali was chubby half of his career and Smokin' Joe Frazier was non-athletic in nearly all of his fights.

But Ali and Frazier are so OVERHYPED and US-American fans are so BRAINWASHED by "experts on TV" that they would laugh at you when you'd claim that modern heavyweight are more athletic.

US-American fans DO NOT KNOW the truth and they BELIEVE THE OPPOSITE.

Fortunately for us a porky picture says more than athletic fog talk of a thousand "experts":

Joe Frazier
Porky
the one-eyed dwarf

hammy-the-butterfly
muHAMmy
the featherfisted BUTTERfly

Let's read some original descriptions from just a few days before the bout about Ali, the BUTTERfly:

"His belly billowing over his trunks, an overlump Ali weighed almost 230 pounds as he waited to spar in his 5th street gym 4 weeks ago."

"Ali's training camp is less disciplined than Frazier's. During the six weeks he lived in Miami Beach, there were days when he skipped a workout altogether. Some days he did not spar… He had trouble with his weight. When training began, he was near 230 pounds and he vowed not even to look at scales until one week before the fight. But three weeks ago he ambled by a scale in the gym, stepped on and whistled "226!" he cried. He vowed immediately to cut out the several Pepsis he drinks every day, but the vow did not last long. "

(LIFE magazine, March 1971)

and

"Muhammad Ali is the worst gym fighter I ever saw."

(Angelo Dundee, Ali's trainer, March 1971)

 

Let me make this clear to all of those who claim that nowadays' Klitschko era consists of out-of-shape boxers:

In the 1970s THE CHAMPIONS were CHUBBY (Ali and Frazier), let alone their opponents. Nowadays the champions are LEAN and SIX-PACK'ED and SOME of their opponents are chubby.
There is no athleticism comparison between now and then, the current era is far more athletic than Ali's era.

Now, I personally have nothing against chubby boxers. Actually I think that chubbiness IS AN ADVANTAGE at modern heavyweight (225+ lbs) because it increases punch resistance.

HOWEVER, Frazier vs Ali were not modern heavyweights. Frazier was merely weighing around 205 lbs for the most part of his career and Ali started to box as a LIGHT-heavyweight ("from light heavyweight to lard heavyweight") (= 2 divisions below what is nowadays called "heavyweight").

Shock #1

Therefore Ali and Frazier were
GROSSLY OUT-OF-SHAPE cruisers
and it's an insult to compare them to modern heavyweights, even to chubby heavyweights.

 

 

Smoking and Stroking

Now, after I pointed out how out-of-shape Frazier and Ali were, comes the second shock to good-old-time-nostalgists:

Shock #2

Frazier and Ali rank amongst the most featherfisted champs
(of 64 heavyweight world champs to date)

 

Yes, you read it correctly. At Boxing eras (4) Golden Age of Heavyweight -OR- Is the Klitschko era the first heavyweight era in history? I posted the complete statistics, thus let me just sum it up quickly here:

Muhammad Ali is BOTTOM #4 of the WEAKEST PUNCHING heavyweight world champions of all time ("like a butterfly") and Frazier is BOTTOM #8.

Out of 64 world heavyweight champions to date!!

And I am generous here because in the calculation I included pre-NBA champions and IBO champions, which are generally not considered valid world champions. Would I exclude pre-NBA champs and IBO champs, Joe Frazier would be the #5 and Muhammad Ali would be #2 of the most featherfisted world champs.

Ali and Frazier are two of the most featherfisted
heavyweight world champs who ever lived
and that's why their fights lasted so many rounds
without a proper KO.

And especially in Ali's case I am (AGAIN) generous, because in his featherfisted'ness calculation I included ALL of his heavyweight KOs as valid KOs, although nearly all of them are very unsatisfying to say the least:

  • Either Ali's KOs are contested (Sonny Liston II, Oscar Bonavena, Cleveland Williams, etc)
  • or were not canvas-KOs (Sonny Liston I retired due to a shoulder problem)
  • or are overlate KOs (round 13+)

thus Ali may very well be THE MOST FEATHERFISTED heavyweight world champ the boxing world has ever witnessed.

 

 

Another thing good-old-time boxing fans don't want to hear!

Frazier, let's not forget, was a handicap:

Shock #3

Smokin' Joe Frazier was blind on his left eye his entire professional career.
Frazier wouldn't be allowed to box nowadays.
He tricked the medical tests by covering his blind left eye
and then switching his hand to cover his blind left eye AGAIN.

 

Moreover Frazier was extremely small. Out of 57 heavyweight world champs who won a real[?] heavyweight world title Frazier, Tyson and Lionel Butler were the only ones who were 5'xx".

In fact, would it not be for Mike Tyson (= freak of nature) and Lionel Butler (= bum[?]) then the last real heavyweight title win of such a small boxer (Frazier) would have been 1972 (Joe Frazier vs ·Ron Stander (who by the way has a bummy record of 38-21).

So here you have it:

If you are an US-American you might call it
"Fight of the century"

If you are not an US-American, or if you are an objective heavyweight fan then the following is more accurate:

PORKY, the one-eyed gnome (green trunks)
-vs-
muHAMmy, the featherfisted BUTTERfly (red trunks)

But let me point out that Frazier is a brave man. He can be proud of his heart. But unfortunately Frazier's heart won't change the fact that Ali vs Frazier would be a proof nowadays of the terrible state of the division.

 

 

The significance of Muhammad Ali vs Joe Frazier

Boxing-wise the event was extraordinary nevertheless because it was a James vs Bond fight (Double-O = two unbeaten boxers). And not only were they unbeaten, but they were unbeaten world champions:

  1. Three years before the fight Ali was the world champ (by beating what-would-nowadays-be-called-cruiser ·Zora Folley 202.5 lbs).
  2. Then Ali had to resign (unbeaten) for 3 years due to legal issues.
  3. In the meanwhile Frazier became world champ by beating what-would-nowadays-be-called-cruiser Jimmy Ellis 201 lbs and Bob Foster 188 lbs. (Interestingly Frazier never fought Sonny Liston who was probably still the biggest threat once Ali resigned.)
  4. Then Ali was allowed to box again thus Ali (unbeaten) and Frazier (unbeaten) were about to settle in ring who is the REAL heavyweight champion of the world.

But the fight was not only interesting because of these special circumstances (unbeaten champ vs unbeaten champ) but also because of something very dear to the hearts of US-Americans:

Ali went to the US Supreme Court for draft-dodging and called Frazier an "Uncle Tom" (for not dodging the draft), and thus Frazier hated him.

Shock #4

The significance of "not-getting drafted" and of being called "Uncle Tom" is basically only understandable by US-Americans, or would you care if a Norwegian boxer went to the Norwegian Supreme Court and called his opponent "Nephew Gustavson"?

Yet, exactly these two (irrelevant) facts are the MAIN reason why this fight enjoys such a hype in the USA: Politics and personal rivalry.

But from a performance point of view Ali vs Frazier is utterly unspectacular or even boring.

Except for rare moments you definitely have the feeling that you too could have withstood a lot of these punches, because they look so weak.

 

 

Joe Frazier vs Muhammad Ali round by round

Round #1

Frazier starts immediately with his ponging technique (bob 'n' weave): Moving like an ping pong ball on wavy water.
And indeed it seems to work against Ali. Ali throws (and misses) wild punches while Frazier manages to connect a few of his swings.

Ali shows his typical disgusting ring behavior and clinches/arm-holds/head-down-pushes 20% of the round.
The commentator says "One of the most exciting first rounds I think we've seen in a long time" and (during the playback) "Clay was always trying to dance away and look at this sort of play acting".

 

Round #2

More of the disgusting behavior of Muhammad Ali: Trashtalking to Frazier (referee warns Ali!), head-down-pushing, clinching, arm-holding. All in all a typical dirty round by Ali ("Dirty Clay", "Clay as Clay can").

Ali is very easy to hit (as in nearly all of his fights) and clinches/arm-holds/head-down-pushes 35% of the round.

Joe Frazier spits blood.

 

Round #3

Ali manages to hit Frazier and Frazier manages to hit Ali. Ali is hurt and had Ali boxed against a modern heavyweight that night (and not a featherfisted Frazier) he would have been KO'ed. It gets more clear that Frazier's main weapon is the left hook, while Ali seems to be utterly blind to the left hook.

Ali is slowing down already. The commentator says "Clay takes a breather on the ropes. The jab has slowed down from Clay. Not quite the snap that there was to the punches in the first two rounds".

Ali's nose bleeds.

Ali clinches/arm-holds/head-down-pushes 30% of the round.

 

Round #4

The commentator talks nonsense about Ali being way ahead (on points).
As a general rule: Of all the parties involved in a fight (judges, commentators, referees, boxers) the commentators of the 1970s were the worst. Their comments were usually on the level of someone who watches his 3rd or 4th boxing match.

Frazier exposes Ali's non-existing defense by connecting with hard shots.

The commentator says "Already you can see that the two men are beginning to slow".

Ali clinches/arm-holds/head-down-pushes only 20% of the round.

 

Round #5

The same repeated. No one can keep the other at bay.

Ali clinches/arm-holds/head-down-pushes 20% of the round.

 

Round #6

Commentator says: "It's going to be interesting in the scoring: Frazier is the aggressor and that will count for him". Translation: Frazier moves forward thus he wins the round, which is a typical difference between how Americans and Europeans score fights. For Americans the moving forward matters while it's actually utterly irrelevant whether you move forward or backward or sideways as I mentioned at Wladimir Klitschko sucks because he KOs his opponents.

Commentator says "Both of them now are taking a breather."

Ali does his rope-a-dope (= leaning on the rope while Frazier punches him). Commentator says: "Clay let's him do it… What's he trying to do? Let Frazier wear himself out on him?.. He's got 10 seconds to make his prediction come true and it's not gonna work. There's the bell and the prediction has failed!" (alluding to Ali's prediction of a TKO 6).

Ali clinches/arm-holds/head-down-pushes 25% of the round.

 

Round #7

More of the same. Commentator says "Ali seems a little bit disgusted with himself, but he's mighty tired"

Ali clinches/arm-holds/head-down-pushes 30% of the round.

 

Round #8

Ali is doing his disgusting rope-a-dope and the audience boos. Frazier grabs Ali by the arms and pulls him off the ropes.
Ali holds his glove on Frazier's face and the audience boos again.

Commentator: "Those pitty-pat punches aren't gonna do much for anybody" and "These two are not so much fighting now, they're sparring. They're putting on an exhibition now in the middle of a world heavyweight championship fight… What is going on? I am surprised the referee hasn't moved in here because this is not fighting for the title. And the crowd is beginning to boo and I don't blame them. People have paid more than 60 pounds here for a ringside seat and they want a fight." and "Clay is talking to him again inside the clinch."

Crowd yells "Joe, Joe".

Ali clinches/arm-holds/head-down-pushes 25% of the round.

 

Round #9

Commentator (US TV) says "Frazier is the fresher of the two, no question"
Commentator (UK TV) says "Frazier is breathing hard. And he's breathing a lot harder than Clay is".

The crowd boos again loudly. The commentator says "Nothing in those punches" (= weak punches).

Ali is so reflexless and passive that the commentator notices "There's a sort of strange death wish about Clay as if he wants to tempt fate. And he is tempting it here because he's been hurt twice now in this round and he's done nothing in reply. He hangs his chin out and asks for it. Why should a man do that?"

Ali clinches/arm-holds/head-down-pushes 15% of the round.

 

Round #10

Commentator: "What's going on here? Frazier may have something wrong with his eye. He was calling his trainer in there."

Commentator compares Frazier to Mack/Marciano "Look at this style. Reminiscent of Rocky Marciano. Frazier is coming in bunched over, crouching over, hooking all the time and ceaselessly chasing his man. Typical Rocky-Marciano-style of the 1950s."

Ali clinches/arm-holds/head-down-pushes 25% of the round.

 

Round #11

Ali gets floored after a good punch by Frazier but it is ruled "No knockdown".

The crowd boos again and the commentator says "Clay's doing nothing… He's not fighting."

Later Ali does the funny dance and his typical gape mouth antic, but doesn't go down despite of wobbly legs. Unfortunately Joe Frazier is a featherfist, modern heavyweights would have finished Ali right there.

Best round of the fight.

Between rounds the commentator says "Angelo Dundee shouts at him and says 'What are you doing?'… That was Muhammad Ali at his worst!… Really getting hammered."

Ali clinches/arm-holds/head-down-pushes 30% of the round.

 

Round #12

Ali gets battered. Commentator says "Suddenly Clay has evaporated… The legs have gone. He's not moving. And he's a standing target."

Ali clinches the audience boos.

Commentator says "Clay is doing nothing and his mouth coming open.. No more dancing."

Ali clinches/arm-holds/head-down-pushes 35% of the round.

 

Round #13

Ali hits Frazier hits Ali hits Frazier hits Ali…

Ali has obviously no technique to keep an opponent at bay, and Frazier has no punch to finish the job.

Ali clinches/arm-holds/head-down-pushes 30% of the round.

 

Round #14

Ali clinches again the crowd boos.

Commentator notes "Frazier is really bleeding inside the mouth… The shape of his face is changing now. He's got so many lumps and bumps around his eyes" (which effectively means that half-blind Frazier could see even less).

Ali clinches/arm-holds/head-down-pushes 45% of the round.

 

Round #15

Ali gets knocked down but survives the fight because the referee allows him to hug and arm-hold.

Ali's face is swollen and the commentator calls it "Like a man with a toothache".

Ali clinches/arm-holds/head-down-pushes 45% of the round.

 

End result

Frazier wins unanimously, one judge has it 11 rounds to 4.

Commentator says "The legend and the myth perhaps of Muhammad Ali has been destroyed".

 

 

*ugh* THAT was the fight of the century?

OK, so that was it: A fight with very little boxing but a lot of brawling and illegal behavior (by Ali, of course).

I am not impressed. A lot of modern heavyweights would have gotten Ali out there within 7 rounds. This guy has hardly any technique and zero reflexes ("Muhammad Zero")

You CAN SEE with your own eyes how featherfisted both are and why all of their encounters went so many rounds.

You CAN SEE with your own eyes, that Ali has no reflexes whatsoever. He shows no defense and is easy to hit. This is no accident. This is TYPICAL for Ali.

You CAN SEE with your own eyes, that Ali has no ability whatsoever to keep an opponent at bay. Ali's only defense is to grab the opponent's neck and push it down. That wouldn't work with nowadays heavyweights as they are so much bigger than Ali.

All in all: The fight is nothing spectacular. It's rather a reminder of the limitedness of Frazier and of Ali.

Moreover the fight is a good example of the black-equals-white approach of Americans who declare WEAKNESSES to virtues ("Chin > Fists", "Messy > Accurate", "15 rounds > KO").

 

 

Isn't Wladimir Klitschko clinching even more?

One of the most bizarre arguments against modern champs (Wladimir Klitschko) when compared to Ali is the complaint that Klitschko clinches too much ("Clinchko").

However when you sum up how much Wladimir clinched in his most clinchy fight (Wladimir Klitschko vs Samuel Peter I), it turns out that he clinched 20 second per round, whereas Ali in *cough* the fight of the century clinched 2x to 3x times as much.

MOREOVER Klitchko merely CLINCHES (= legal), whereas Ali holds the arms (illegal), grabs the neck (illegal), pushes the head down (illegal), and insults (illegal) or threatens with terroristic attacks ("I might say to a white fighter: 'Listen,' (while in a clinch), 'the Black Panthers [known for their violence against whites] are outside. You don't stand a damn chance tonight, boy. They'll burn your house down').

 

 

End words

After watching this featherfisted clinchfest I really needed some modern heavyweight fight. With real power and real knockdowns.

What a relief that I don't live in Ali's cruiserweight era.

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Rating: 3.2/5 (42 votes cast)
Joe Frazier vs Muhammad Ali: 2 overrated featherfists in an overrated fight, 3.2 out of 5 based on 42 ratings
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Comments (63)

  • Indigoba says:
    flag
    [ip2username: Rany Moge]
    #299 Indigoba (2011-05-19th)

    This is nonsense, in one paragraph you say that the fighters were overweight and in the next you say that they weren't heavy enough to be considered heavyweights make up your mind. Why do you think that non americans are unable to understand the uncle tom comments and draft dodging, it's not hard to get your head around. What does it matter if they were small by your 'modern heavyweight' standards so are Tyson, Holyfield, Haye. Your arguements against Ali Frazier are nonsense do all boxing fans a big favour and stop writing drivel.

    PEACE

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    • Admin says:
      flag
      [ip2username: Suva Mywo]
      #305 Admin (2011-05-20th)
      This is nonsense, in one paragraph you say that the fighters were overweight and in the next you say that they weren't heavy enough to be considered heavyweights make up your mind.

      Both is true. There is no contradiction.

      Why do you think that non americans are unable to understand the uncle tom comments and draft dodging, it's not hard to get your head around.

      I read in a book that calling someone a "turtle" in China is a gross insult. ANYONE gets the concepts of insults, but for me as a non-Chinese it's impossible to grasp the emotional implications of being called a turtle. The same applies to Arabic insults like "F*ck your god". It leaves me utterly unaffected just like "You are an Uncle Tom".

      What does it matter if they were small by your 'modern heavyweight' standards so are Tyson, Holyfield, Haye.

      Haye 6'3" is not that small. Tyson and Holyfield are and that's why Tyson would lose nowadays. Holyfield's heavyweight record (200×2) is now 26-10.

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      • Tommo says:
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        [ip2username: Puga Lyxo]
        #5617 Tommo (2013-03-24th)

        That was a misleading statement admin. By "size" you are referring to height. Haye at 6'3" is not that small correct. Tyson is small as far as stature goes at 5'10 and a half". But Haye is a former cruiserweight who live Holyfield has used modern resistance training to build himself up to heavyweight. Tyson is a natural heavyweight who was never a cruiser. His lack of height was compensated for with slabs of natural muscle.

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  • Honza says:
    flag
    [ip2username: Zura Pyso]
    #360 Honza (2011-06-01st)

    You are just a stupid c*nt and hater. Go f*ck Klitschkos you moron.

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    Rating: 3.1/5 (11 votes cast)
  • Honza says:
    flag
    [ip2username: Xisu Napy]
    #367 Honza (2011-06-02nd)

    Tell Joe Frazier that he is featherfist okay? We will see what is gonna hapenned. I could also said that Vitalij vs. Lennox was fight of featherfists. But I will not because I am not ignorant like you. When Muhammad and Joe faced each other in Manila that was harder match than first one.

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    • Bruce Crichton says:
      flag
      [ip2username: Tixu Waly]
      #6426 Bruce Crichton (2013-07-31st)

      The writer of this page is correct.

      Joe Frazier was featherfisty against superheavyweights while Lewis and Vitali were big punchers against superheavyweights.

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      Rating: 2.3/5 (3 votes cast)
  • Anonymous says:
    flag
    [ip2username: Ray Jope]
    #752 (2011-08-18th)

    hahahahhahaha another troll funny

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  • K Anwar says:
    flag
    [ip2username: Pyro Xemi]
    #781 K Anwar (2011-08-22nd)

    This is probably the most idiotic 'article' i have ever seen. I won't say much as i think it's all a bit tongue in cheek. Lol.

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  • Edward Crown says:
    flag
    [ip2username: Vizu Jawy]
    #803 Edward Crown (2011-08-25th)

    You have no clue about boxing–do you smoke crack or just smell some? You're article is so ignorant that I quit half way through. You wouldn't know how to box if you were shown how to in a UPS store. Ali-Frazier 1 was overrated? That is the funniest thing I ever heard!!Don't quit your day job!! :mrgreen:

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    • Tommo says:
      flag
      [ip2username: Puga Lyxo]
      #5618 Tommo (2013-03-24th)

      What theatrical re-enactment of the fight did you watch mate? If that was the fight of the century then boxing would be about as exciting as lawn bowls.

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  • blaine says:
    flag
    [ip2username: Pypo Peji]
    #1309 blaine (2011-10-01st)

    a russian must have written this article. Ali over-rated? As a technical boxer, he's overrated: he couldn't parry punches worth a damn, didn't slip punches, didn't go to the body and held his hands all wrong when throwing out his jab. But, as a champion he is not over-rated: he was fast, ATHLETIC (yes, it's true), tremendously tough and tremendously courageous. Frazier was left hook happy, a poor boxer in terms of defense (though he was excellent at bobbing and weaving at the peak of his career) and was short and borderline fat. However, he was also immensely tough, had under-appreciated hand speed and quickness, terrific stamina, and no small amount of courage himself.

    Both were flawed fighters, but still great fighters and the first Ali-Frazier fight was a great fight (the pace alone puts today's heavyweight spectacles to shame).

    If you're going to troll, at least be intelligent about it.

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    • ben says:
      flag
      [ip2username: Kasy Lote]
      #1550 ben (2011-10-25th)

      lol. whoever created this site WAS intelligent about it and obviously spent a tremendous amount of time in compiling all of the data necessary to making evidence based claims with the use of STATISTICS.

      He is not a "troll" because this is his website. And even if he was, he would be the most intelligent troll i have ever seen on the internet lol. No one uses statistical evidence like this when making their claims. You yourself made some claims in your response without evidence, and then charge this site's owner with the burden of being "intelligent". You need to take your own advice.

      Everyone commenting on this site is completely off-base. There are PLENTY PLENTY PLENTY sites where you can have ali-foreman-norton-frazier circle jerk and no one will rain on the parade. this is the first site i have come across that offers an OBJECTIVE view on the american icons and on MODERN boxing.

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      • Tommo says:
        flag
        [ip2username: Puga Lyxo]
        #5619 Tommo (2013-03-24th)

        It is the most realistic boxing blog around and I think is becoming regarded as such. Because everyone is on even ground here it's easy to see how ridiculous Ali's fans really are. "The pace alone" lol Watch Haye Klitschko for a fast outside fight or a Tyson knockout if you want to see pace. Then watch clash of the lemons again and tell me the same.

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  • blaine says:
    flag
    [ip2username: Wote Wivu]
    #1834 blaine (2011-11-09th)

    my guess is that a racist russian pig came up with this site; it smells like that more and more.

    Russians really are farm animals

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    • Admin says:
      flag
      [ip2username: Suva Mywo]
      #2993 Admin (2011-11-29th)

      Judging by your statements ("Russians really are farm animals") the only thing I need to reply is "Look who's talking"

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      • Honza says:
        flag
        [ip2username: Bibu Mary]
        #3815 Honza (2012-03-07th)

        Where is Kiribati please. I amsorry but I do not know that.

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    • Tommo says:
      flag
      [ip2username: Puga Lyxo]
      #5620 Tommo (2013-03-24th)

      If Russians are better at boxing than other nationalities it's because they research and develop the art the best and they train the hardest. Plain and simple.

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  • Mani Coventry England says:
    flag
    [ip2username: Zapy Boge]
    #3822 Mani Coventry England (2012-03-09th)

    You dumb f*ck! You know f*ck all about Boxing, this fight was the great!!!! Smokin Joe we love ya, RIP.

    Ps. Klitschkos, would have NO chance! Sutpid mother f*cker…………..!

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    • Admin says:
      flag
      [ip2username: Suva Mywo]
      #3823 Admin (2012-03-09th)

      …and thank you for reminding us about the class of AliFants.

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      • Honza says:
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        [ip2username: Gajy Xode]
        #3969 Honza (2012-05-06th)

        Are inteligent enough to understand what is that canadian man saying. He is only defending his favorites. I like to see that there are still people that share same opinions with me. Joe is dead and that is sad. But you always come up with that AliFants crap. You are becoming boring and predictable.

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  • Gabenz says:
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    [ip2username: Linu Raky]
    #4035 Gabenz (2012-07-10th)

    This is a great review. I agree with all that you said.

    I can´t even watch that fight because it was very very very boring. I rather see some lightweight fight.

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  • krle says:
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    [ip2username: Xapy Xoje]
    #4045 krle (2012-07-16th)

    Aside from seeing no point in insulting Joe Frazier like that I would definitely agree that Ali not just would not fair very well against many of the modern heavyweights, but also against opponents in his own weight class or even a class below (cruiser), maybe even more so. His much admired speed is not very exceptional in modern day terms and even I, as someone who is not even that much into boxing, can see tremendous openings that any half decent counter puncher would exploit with no mercy. Alis jab is a joke, and Haye for instance (whom I very much dislike) is significantly faster than Ali.
    Prime Ali would probably always have made it to the top 10 in the division, but once he "got found" he would be anything but "the greatest of all time"

    He did have some exceptional wins, or rather- one, against a prime Foreman, but without that, his fighting record is not that impressive. His true potential might have been immense, and there is no saying what he might have been in absolute terms had he trained properly and stepped up his game. He was however, good enough for the era.. and the era was great for whatever reasons..

    His wins over the likes of Liston (slow as a turtle at the time he fought Ali), shot Cleveland Williams, little Floyd Patterson, Lyle, Shavers, all of them a tactical catastrophe, do not impress me that much. Any puncher with a strategy could have made a mess of Ali after his prime, and some even in his prime. Most of those fights are unwatchable, the tempo is slow, and they all gas out by the 6th round..

    He did have some things going for him, and that was that most of his opponents were dumb beyond belief, jogging after him with their guard down.. he was big for the time, he was fast and could take a decent punch.

    Against some of the modern day greats, Tyson, Lennox Lewis, the Klits,I would not bet on Ali.. not even in his prime..

    Most of the hype on Ali is much similar to the hype that follows Bruce Lee, who never even fought at any higher level, but went down in history as THE best fighter that the world has ever seen. And people seriously discuss how he would beat some of the modern MMA fighters..

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    • Tommo says:
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      [ip2username: Xupa Gyko]
      #6135 Tommo (2013-04-24th)

      Sorry to all the Ali and Frazier fans but what this man has wrote is pretty much spot on imo. Clay was challenged by cruisers in his own era let alone a modern cruier, and against heavies today he would have even bigger problems. I feel the same way, those fights are "unwatchable". Haye is much quicker than Ali AND knows how to box properly. It would be a UD over Ali for him and a KO of Frazier to be fair.

      Bruce Lee def modern MMA fighter is also ridiculous lol but yes it is the same sort of comparison you are right!!

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  • ian says:
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    [ip2username: Xeni Suda]
    #5560 ian (2013-03-18th)

    I am so happy that someone finally wrote the truth, i am sick and tired of hearing about these so called "greats of the golden era" and how they would "toy" with either Klitschko. It irks me to say the least , it is obviously black Americans who spew that garbage and even some white american journalists. They have no clue about boxing , i have even read somewhere that Joe Frazer would beat either Klitschko ???? it is laughable , anyone who knows a little about boxing knows this would never happen in a million years ,Ali was small by modern heavyweight standards and Joe was tiny.
    you have 2 of the most defensively sound heavyweights ever in history, never get hit, never lose a round , never ,,have the highest KO % to fight ratio in history, Vitali has never been knocked down , never even been rocked, dont even get a glove layed on them by huge heavies like Wach.
    to suggest Ali or fraser would beat them is highly laughable and offensive , the Klits would destroy any of those so called greats .
    f*ck Mummamad ali , he was a racist. and he was/is the most overrated sporstman in history by a countrey mile. Ali and Fraser would not even beat someone like Chris Bird or Chisora or countless other modern heavies let alone legends like the Klitschkos.
    The past heavies were way too small ,like cruisers.

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  • ian says:
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    [ip2username: Xeni Suda]
    #5561 ian (2013-03-18th)

    Ali got his ass whiiped by Joe Frazer, that tells you all you need to know.
    Ali got his ass whipped big time by Larry f*cking Holmes, and Ali was only like 37, still relatively prime for most boxers, eg Hopkins, both klits, etc.
    What Foreman did to joe was what would happen if klit fought joe, hell theyd even do that to Ali in his prime too.

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    • Aggro says:
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      [ip2username: Wote Disu]
      #7402 Aggro (2014-07-16th)

      If Frazier got knocked down 6 times by Foreman & got up 6 times…

      The only difference had he met any big puncher like Tyson, Lewis, Klitschko etc…he wouldn't have got up after the 1st knockdown!

      LOL

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  • ian says:
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    [ip2username: Xeni Suda]
    #5562 ian (2013-03-18th)

    hell ali and fraser and foreman were just lucky they were competing back then and not now, in fact
    they also lucky russian fighter were not allowed to compete internationally back then otherwiase history would be very different, these f*cking russians are tough and no black fighter would deal with them.

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  • Tommo says:
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    [ip2username: Puga Lyxo]
    #5598 Tommo (2013-03-24th)

    Hell yeah if Soviets were allowed to compete professionally throughout the last century with their highly athletic society there would have been far less US champions for sure.

    LOL it was a crap fight. Utterly bazaar how anybody could watch that fight and then go on to claim it was the fight of the century. Equally ridiculous how anybody can watch the career of either of those two, watch the career of ANY heavyweight champion from Holmes through to Klitschko and draw the conclusion that they could win. Using an Australian analogy it is like saying a beer bellied AFL player with a mullet from the 70s which lit up a cigarette at half time instead of eating a slice of orange is better than a modern professional footballer with muscles ripping his Guernsey apart. Has to be something we're missing lol :)

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    • Tommo says:
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      [ip2username: Puga Lyxo]
      #5599 Tommo (2013-03-24th)

      The saddest part is it took someone an enormous amount of time and effort to compile this blog to show incontrovertibly what should be immediately apparent just by "watching" them fight.

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  • John says:
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    [ip2username: Vope Ziru]
    #6195 John (2013-05-17th)

    Sorry ali fans but most of this is true, the 2nd Ali Frazier fight was even worse, Ali just plain cheated his way to victory grabbing Joe like a ballroom dancer, & the grossly overrated Thrilla in Manila both men falling around like a couple of goss eyed drunks in a bar room brawl. At least joe knew when to quit but the deluded Ali went from bad to worse fighting an array of bums & kept afloat by some equally blind judging 8-)

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    [ip2username: Deni Puva]
    #6328 The Edomite {CracKKKa} KIlla (2013-07-13th)

    ALL RIGHT THAT'S f*ckIN IT! IT'S TIME TO SET YOU EDOMITES {CRACKKKAS} STRAIGHT ONCE IN FOR ALL!!

    FIRST OF ALL, MUHAMMAD ALI IS LEGITIMATELY THE TOP 3 FIGHTER OF ALL TIME IF NOT THE GREATEST FIGHTER TO EVER MAKE A ENTRANCE INTO THE RING!!

    MUHAMMAD ALI IN HIS PRIME WITH f*ck UP THAT FAGGOT WHITE RUSSIAN BOTCH KLIT-WHORE!!

    HOW DO I KNOW THAT? WELL IT VERY SIMPLE. ALI HAVE DEVELOPED ONE OF THE MOST UNORTHODOX, BUT EFFECTIVE DEFENSIVE TECHNIQUES OF ALL THE BOXING. INSTEAD OF BEING FLAT-FOOTED AND STATIONARY AND KEEPING HIS GUARD UP JUST IN CASE HIS OPPONENTS STARTS TO PROJECT A MULTITUDE OF SHOTS, HE USED HIS WHOLE BODY, SPECIFICALLY, HIS FEET TO MAKE HIM MOBILE, ELUSIVE AND EVASIVE! HE UNDERSTOOD THAT GAY ASS FIGHTERS LIKE WLADIMIR AND VITALI WERE HEAVY-FOOTED FIGHTERS WHO RELIES UPON THEIR REACH, HEIGHT AND OFFENSE AS A COMPONENT OF THEIR DEFENSIVE WHICH IS THE MOST INEFFECTIVE TOOL OF DEFENSE IN BOXING. WHEN THEY DO BLOCK, THEY JUST CURL UP. IF YOU SEEN THE LENNOX LEWIS AND VITALI FIGHT, VITALI'S DEFENSE WAS HIS OFFENSE, HE LEFT HIS VISAGE AND CONTINENCE UNEARTH AND INSECURED AND THAT RESULTED IN A 7TH ROUND TECHNICAL KNOCKOUT BECAUSE HIS LEFT EYE WAS LETHALLY CUT AND IT HAD sh*t TO DO WITH LENNOX LEWIS' GLOVES SO DON'T GIVE ME THAT sh*t!

    ALI IN HIS PRIME WOULD SHOVE VITALI AROUND BECAUSE HE KNOW THAT HE LACKED THE TOTAL PACKAGE AND THE ENTIRE BOXING PROFICIENCY TO WITHSTAND A SUPREME ATHLETE LIKE ALI!

    DON'T EVEN GET ME STARTED IF VITALI OR HIS WEAKER VESSEL OF A BROTHER CALLED HIM "CASSIUS CLAY" THAT IS SUICIDE AND A SELF-INFLICTED CAPITAL PUNISHMENT UPON THEMSELVES! ALI TOOK PRIDE OF HIS NAME AND HIS NEW IDENTITY AS A MUSLIM IN WHICH THEY ARE REALLY CATHOLICS BUT THAT'S A DIFFERENT STORY. ERNIE TERRELL WAS THE SAME HEIGHT AS WLADIMIR AT 6'6" AND HE WAS A BETTER PRIZE-FIGHTER THAN FAGIMIR CLIT-WHORE AND HE WAS BEATEN FOR AGES. NOT TO MENTION LIL TINY FLOYD PATTERSON CAMPARED TO ALI, JUMPED STUPID AGAINST ALI ALSO AND WAS f*ckED UP!!

    I WOULD LIKE TO QUOTE THE GREAT APOLLO CREED IN ROCKY IV IN WHICH STALLONE DUMB ASS SHOULDN'T HAVE KILLED OFF CREED BEING THAT CREED WAS A MUCH SUPREME BOXER AND DEFENDER THAN BALBOA. CREED SAID " I WOULD LIKE TO PROVE THAT RUSSIA DOESN'T HAVE ALL THE BEST ATHLETES" AND HE'S RIGHT. THE RUSSIANS WHO MAKE A ENTRANCE INTO PROFESSIONAL BOXING ARE JUST LENGTHY AND TALL WITH A LARGE REACH, THEY AREN'T GREAT FIGHTERS AT ALL! AIN'T NOTHING TO MARVEL AT WHEN TO OBSERVE THEIR FIGHTING! WHAT KIND OF FLASHY DISPLAY OF THEM THAT WE BLACK HEBREW ISRAELITES SHOULD BE f*ckIN JEALOUS OF??! Y'ALL f*ckIN EDOMITES ARE THE MOST STIFF AND UNDESIRED ATHLETES IN THE HISTORY OF CIVILIZATION! THAT'S WHY THE MOST HIGH CURSED Y'ALL HONKKKIES WITH SKIN CANCER THRU THE ULTRA- {VIOLENT} RADIATION FROM THE SUN!

    LET ME GET BACK TO ALI! IF YOU SEEN THE CUS D'AMATO AND ALI INTERVIEW, NOTICE WHO ALI HAVE ANALYZED DOWN TO A SCIENCE ON THE FLAWS OF THE FIGHTERS WHO CUS BELIEVE CAN BEAT ALI. FOR INSTANCE, JOE LOUIS, WHO WAS A BRUISER. HE DEPENDED ON POWER PUNCHES, IN FACT, THAT ONE PUNCH TO END HIS OPPONENTS, JUST LIKE FOREMAN, JUST LIKE THAT OVERRATED BITCH ROCKY MARCI-assh*le, JUST LIKE TYSON DOWN THE STRETCH!! LOUIS DOESN'T DEPEND ON COMBINATION OF PUNCHES LET ALONE ARTICULATE ANY FORM OF LIGHTNING SPEED AT THAT. HE TELEGRAPHS HIS PUNCHES TO MUCH AND CAN EASILY TO BE DEFENDED AGAINST!!

    AND THEM KLIT-WHORE BRUTHAS AIN'T NO BETTER!! WHITE FIGHTERS AND WHITE RUSSIAN FIGHTERS ARE TOO SLOW AND THEY TEACH THEMSELVES TO BE READ BY THEIR OPPONENTS. THAT'S ONE OF THE OTHER REASONS WHY LENNOX LEWIS WAS SOOOOO SUCCESSFUL AGAINST sh*tALI {VITALI} BECAUSE VITALI WASN'T THROWING ANY PUNCHES THAT COULDN'T HAVE BEEN DETECTED BEFORE REACTION FROM HIS OPPONENTS. THAT'S WHY LENNOX LEWIS FACE WAS NOT BLEMISHED BUT VITALI WAS!!

    IMAGINE WHAT PRIME ALI AT 6'3" SOMETIMES BILLED AT 6'4" LIKE AGAINST LARRY HOLMES IN 1980 CAN DO TO VITALI AND HIS WEAKER VESSEL OF A BROTHER!! THEY WOULD BE TO FRUSTRATED BECAUSE THEY CAN CAPTURE ALI. AND ALI DOESN'T TELEGRAPHY HIS PUNCHES. HIS PUNCHES OF UNDETECTED AND UNSUSPECTED, THAT'S WHY THEIR OPPONENTS TIMING IN BODY REACTION IS OFF SO BY THE TIME THAT THEY DUCK OR BOB AND GET BACK TO THEIR VERTICAL MOTION, ALI HAS ALREADY LAND 4 CONSECUTIVE SHOTS AND ALI INSIDE AND OUTSIDE OF HIS PRIME HAVE FOUGHT AND DESTROYED FIGHTERS THAT THIS PUSSIES OF RUSSIAN BROTHERS WOULDN'T EVEN DREAM OF GOING AGAINST. SONNY LISTON, JOE FRAZIER, GEORGE FOREMAN, AND ERNIE SHAVERS WHO ARE ALL CONSIDERS TO BE IN THE TOP 10 ALL TIME IN THE MOST DEADLIEST PUNCHERS IN BOXING HISTORY, SPECIFICALLY IN THE HEAVYWEIGHT DIVISION!

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    • Tommo says:
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      [ip2username: Loze Xivu]
      #6382 Tommo (2013-07-28th)

      I have to say that today it is pretty clear that the "prime" Ali of the 60's would be knocked out by a Klitschko.

      This Ali never faced a decent opponent. His best opponent of the 60's before his exile was Liston who was not as tough as most of Wlad or even Vitali's own opponents.

      Wlad has never been challenged by an opponent as inexperienced+weak+light+chinny as this Ali.

      Wlad has beaten comparable fighters to Ali in Haye, Mormeck, Chambers and Byrd.

      Ali never fought an opponent entire career as good as Wladimir.

      Ali lost to extremely poor competition in Frazier, Norton and Spinks which Wladimir would never be troubled by. By comparison these 3 make Sanders and Brewster look like legends and even bum Ross Puritty was heftier and hit harder and had more HW experience than any of the 3 and certainly had better chin!

      I could go on.

      Bottom line is is Ali stands really no chance. I think only a 70's Ali who was heavier, stronger and DID have great chin and ring IQ has good chances to survive Klitschko's by attempting to tie them up in clinch. Even still it's hard to imagine.

      Larry Holmes I do rank but I see no performance of Larry's that leads me to believe he could beat Klitschko. Prime Holmes struggled with an old Norton for Christ Sake! And was even knocked down by Shavers! His best performance in fact was his win over Mercer when he was old and fat!

      You said they are slow, they are about as fast as possible for 245lb fighters!

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      • Aggro says:
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        [ip2username: Wote Disu]
        #7403 Aggro (2014-07-16th)

        Any time weak chinned brawlers Frazier, Norton faced a puncher they were rolling around the floor.

        I mean Norton only took up boxing at 20 in the army.
        So how good could he have been with his limited experience…yet he gave Ali all he could handle.
        In fact Norton arguably won 1 or 2 of their fights.

        Chinny Norton got destroyed by Cooney.

        Same thing would've happened had he faced Tyson, Lewis, Klitschko etc

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  • flag
    [ip2username: Lajy Goxe]
    #6330 The Edomite {CracKKKa} KIlla (2013-07-13th)

    "Against some of the modern day greats, Tyson, Lennox Lewis, the Klits,I would not bet on Ali.. not even in his prime..

    KIRE YOU DUMB ASS YOU SOUND LIKE THESE FAGGOTS I HAVE TO DESTORY ON YOU TUBE YESTERDAY IN A VIDEO ABOUT MIKE TYSON VS MUHAMMAD ALI

    MUHAMMAD ALI WOULD DESTROY LEWIS, TYSON, AND THE CLIT-ORIS IN THEIR PRIMES!

    HOW TO I KNOW THIS?

    WELL HOW CAN I PUT THIS? IT'S VERY SIMPLE. AS DECADES PROGRESSES, THE HEAVYWEIGHT CLASS IN TERMS OF WEIGHT HAVE BEGAN TO PROGRESS FIGHTERS FROM 1985 AND OVER HAVE BEEN THE PRODUCTS OF THE GREAT ATHLETIC BOXERS AND POWER PUNCHES STARTING FROM THE 1960'S. FOR INSTANCE, MIKE TYSON WAS A PRODUCT OF BOTH CUS D'AMATO AND MUHAMMAD ALI AS FAR AS ARTICULATING SPEED. TYSON ADMITTED THAT ALI WAS HIS INSPIRATION SO IF TYSON WAS 6'3" OR MORE HIS FIGHTING STYLE WOULD RESEMBLE NON BRUISING FIGHTERS LIKE ALI, NORTON, LENNOX LEWIS, BIGGS, HOLYFIELD, SUGAR RAY LENARD, ROY JONES, AND ETC. THEY ONLY REASON WHY TYSON FOUGHT THE WAY HE FOUGHT WAS BECAUSE HE WAS TOO SHORT AT 5 FOOT 10 OR 11 SO AGAINST FIGHTERS WHO WAS 6'2" OR BETTER YET 6'3" OR MORE HIS STRATEGY WOULD BE TO PENETRATE INSIDE OF HIS OPPONENTS AND WORKING THE BODY BECAUSE HIS ARMS AND HIS REACH WAS TO SHORT TO BE DANCING AROUND AND STICKING AND MOVING, SO CUS TAUGHT TYSON HOW TO KILL AND BRUISE FIGHTERS!

    ALI HAS HAD A FIELD DAY AGAINST BRUISING TYPE PUGILIST BECAUSE THEY WERE SOOOO PREDICTABLE!! ALI KNEW THAT FIGHTERS WHO WAS SHORTER THAN ALI WERE MAY 6 FOOT 1 OR 6 FOOT 0 AND LESS SIMPLE STRATEGY WOULD BE TO GO TO THE BODY AND TRY TO WEAR THEM DOWN WHICH WAS A PLAN THAT USUALLY BACK FIRE BECAUSE NOT ONLY THAT ALI WAS A SUPER FREAK IN THE ABILITY TO SOAK IN DAMAGES AND POWER-SHOTS WHICH WAS HIS STRENGTH AND DOWNFALL DOWN THE STRETCH IN HIS LIFE, HE ALSO HAD A IRON CHIN AND A WILL OF STEEL. IF MUHAMMAD ALI WAS A GAME GENIE OR A GAME SHARK OR ACTION REPLAY, HE WOULD HAVE INFINITE WILL POWER AND CHIN STRENGTH DO HE WAS SUPER f*ckIN HARD TO BE BROKEN DOWN AND TYSON WOULD END UP JUST LIKE PRIME FOREMAN AND END UP PUNCHING HIMSELF OUT WHICH WOULD ESCORT ALI TO MAKE A MOVE AND FINISH HIM OFF!!

    AGAINST LENNOX LEWIS. LENNOX LEWIS HAD A MUCH BETTER DEFENSE THAN BOTH TYSON AND THE KLITS BUT HE WOULD STILL LEAVE HIS FACE UNEARTH AND UNPROTECTED AT TIMES BUT NOT AS BAD AS THE KLITS. LENNOX JUST LIKE ALI ARE VERY GOOD AND KEEPING FOR THE MOST PART A CLEAN FACE AS IF THEY NEVER TOOK A SHOT TO THE FACE. HE BLOCKS PUNCHES WITH HIS FOREARMS WHICH IS THE OLDEST WAY AND SIMPLISTIC WAY TO DEFEND YOURSELF, BUT LENNOX WAS NOT FLEET-FOOTED AND KIND OF FLAT-FOOTED BUT NOT THAT BAD AND CAN BE VERY STATIONARY AT TIMES WHICH WOULD GIVE ALI THE OPPORTUNITY TO PENETRATE AND LAND A MULTITUDE OF FACIAL SHOTS. LENNOX HAD MORE TROUBLE AGAINST FIGHTERS THAT WAS 6 FOOT 3 OR TALLER LIKE AGAINST OLIVER MCCALL AND VITALI AND CAN BE CLUMSY ENOUGH TO FACE UNNECESSARY HITS TO THE CHOPS OR JAR LIKE AGAINST RAHMAN. LEWIS IS STILL VULNERABLE AGAINST ALI BECAUSE HE HAS FAIR SPEED AND HE CAN STUN ALI WITH FACIAL SHOTS BUT HIS CONFLICT IS THAT HE CAN BE VERY INCONSISTENT. ALI HAD MORE SUCCESS AGAINST FIGHTERS WHO WAS HIS HEIGHT OR TALLER. LEWIS AGAINST FOREMAN, HE WOULD HAVE TO ADOPT THE ROPE A DOPE OTHER WISE HE'LL BE TURNED INTO MINCE MEAT. AND LET'S SAY THAT THE ROPE A DOPE WAS NEVER A ENTITY, HOW WOULD LEWIS WOULD FIGHT AGAINST A PRIME FOREMAN WHO WAS JUST A INCH SHORTER THAN HIS AS OPPOSED TO FIGHTING TINY TYSON AND DAVID TUA WHO WAS GREAT FIGHTERS BY THE WAY

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    • Tommo says:
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      [ip2username: Loze Xivu]
      #6383 Tommo (2013-07-28th)

      I must say it's been awhile since I have seen such an imbecilic poster as yourself. I'm ok with being an Ali fan really that much is cool but if you want to declare so forcefully that Ali would "wipe the floor" with all the recent and current era champs, lets give you a few home truths about your favourite and see how the REAL Ali stacked up.

      Ali struggled to beat George Foreman, a crude Slugger. I've only little doubt that Foreman could have smashed him up good in a rematch. Compared to Klitschko and Lewis, Foreman is like a drunk in a blind rage. Of course Foreman did have better chin than them but Ali does not possess the one punch power to drop the 3 anyway, they've never been dropped by such weak opponent as Ali.

      If a chinny, punch weak skilled boxer like Norton could beat Ali imagine what a giant skilled boxer like the 3 giants could do?

      As for Tyson the evidence is just overwhelming.

      Ali struggled against and lost to Frazier, an opponent who would be knocked straight out in round 1 imo against ANY of the 4 boxers you think Ali could whip.

      Tyson is heavier, more skilled, more athletic, more powerful, faster, more accurate, more defensive and more aggressive than Frazier. He is basically a super Frazier! To say that Ali would be the underdog here is a mild understatement!

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    [ip2username: Lajy Goxe]
    #6331 The Edomite {CracKKKa} KIlla (2013-07-13th)

    "His belly billowing over his trunks, an overlump Ali weighed almost 230 pounds as he waited to spar in his 5th street gym 4 weeks ago."

    "Ali's training camp is less disciplined than Frazier's. During the six weeks he lived in Miami Beach, there were days when he skipped a workout altogether. Some days he did not spar… He had trouble with his weight. When training began, he was near 230 pounds and he vowed not even to look at scales until one week before the fight. But three weeks ago he ambled by a scale in the gym, stepped on and whistled "226!" he cried. He vowed immediately to cut out the several Pepsis he drinks every day, but the vow did not last long. "

    (LIFE magazine, March 1971)

    HEY UM, ADMIN, THE DICKHEAD WHO POSTED THIS LINK. ALI WAS NEVER PACIFIED ABOUT SUCCOMBING TO FOODS AND DRINKS HE WAS NOT SUPPOSED TO CONSUME IN PREPARATION FOR ANY CHAMPIONSHIP TITLES.

    HE EVEN ADMITTED IN A MOVIE CALLED "THE GREATEST" WHEN HE PLAYED HIMSELF WHEN HE MET DREW BUNDINI BROWN FOR THE FIRST TIME WHEN HE SAID THAT "I HAVE TO GIVE UP ALL THE THINGS I LIKE TO EAT UNTIL NOW. ALL THE ICE CREAM, ALL THE CAKE, ALL THE PIE. I HAVE TO GIVE UP ALL THE THINGS I LIKE, MAINLY PRETTY WOMEN MAN, IT'S HARD TO PRETTY WOMEN"

    ALI KNEW THAT HE HAVE TO GIVE UP THE JUNK FOODS AND BEVERAGES WITH ADDITIVES AND sh*t LIKE THAT SO BITCH TELL ME SOMETHING I DON'T KNOW. HIS EATING HABITS NEVER EFFECTED HIS VICTORY AGAINST ONE OF THE MOST ELITE HEAVYWEIGHTS IN THE HISTORY OF BOXING AND BESIDES U TALKING ABOUT A ALI WHO WAS WAY PAST HIS PRIME. U NOT TALKING ABOUT THE 1964-1967 ALI WHEN HE WAS IN THE TOP SHAPE OF HIS LIFE AND EVEN WHEN HE WWAS PAST HIS PRIME, HE STILL WAS RIPPED AND CUT IN SOME FIGHTS LIKE THE ALI/FRAZIER I IN 1971 AND MUHAMMAD ALI VS KEN NORTON PART II IN 1973. ALI WAS CUT LIKE APOLLO CREED IN ROCKY IV SO DON'T GIVE ME THAT BULLsh*t THAT ALI WAS UNDISCIPLINED AND HE TRAINED WITH NO HEART INTO THE PROCESS.

    ALI HOLDS PEOPLE TOO MUCH?? ALI HOLD JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER BOXER THAT HOLD WHEN THEY ARE IN TROUBLE AND THEIR OPPONENTS IS HAVING TOO MUCH SUCCESS INSIDE TO THE BOXER WHO CLINCHES DO IT TO:

    NUMBER ONE: TAKE A SHORT BREATHER TO REGAIN SOME WIND

    NUMBER TWO: TO DISRUPT THE RHYTHM OF THEIR OPPONENTS TO FRUSTRATE THEM

    NUMBER THREE: TO PUT EMPHASIS ON EXTRADITING THAT IT'S ONE OF THE MOST WISEST THING TO DO WHEN U ARE IN THE RINGS AS A UNOFFICIAL PART OF THE DEFENSE.

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  • flag
    [ip2username: Gove Jinu]
    #6335 The Edomite {CracKKKa} Killa (2013-07-15th)

    https://www.facebook.com/notes/bbs-bayatha-broadcast-station/truth-rocky-farce-iano-is-the-most-overrated-boxerathelete-in-the-history-of-pro/460986110662438

    THIS IS TO ALL Y'ALL assh*leS WHO THINK THAT ROCKY MARCIANO CAN BEAT ALI!

    I AGREE IF YOU SAID THAT VITALI AND VLAD CAN DEFEAT ROCKY MARCIANO BECAUSE MARCIANO WAS A WRECKLESS BRUISER AND UNLIKE TYSON WHO WAS ALSO A BRUISER BUT A ATHLETIC ONE, ROCK DIDN'T USE ANY COMBINATION OF PUNCHES TO SHIFT THE MOMENTUM FROM HIS OPPONENT TO HIMSELF, NEITHER DID HE USE HEAD MOVEMENT OR BETTER YET BODILY MOVEMENT AND USE HIS FEET AS A FOUNDATION TO EVADE ANY SHOTS TO THE CONTINUANCE OR TO THE BODY ON DEFENSE. THE CLIT-ORIS BRUTHA IS VERY FLAT-FOOTED, STIFF, STATIONARY AND SLOW AND BY THE TIME THEY THROW A PUNCH, FIGHTERS LIKE MUHAMMAD ALI, LENNOX LEWIS, THE 1980 LARRY HOLMES IN HIS PRIME, ROY JONES, AND EVEN GEORGE FOREMAN WOULD HAVE ALREADY HAVE ESCAPED THEIR ATTACKS!

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    • Tommo says:
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      [ip2username: Loze Xivu]
      #6384 Tommo (2013-07-28th)

      You belong on ESB, the Classic forum is where you can nuthug other old timers like yourself til your hearts content.

      If one day you want to debate realistically you know where to come ;)

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    • Bruce Crichton says:
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      [ip2username: Tixu Waly]
      #6425 Bruce Crichton (2013-07-31st)

      Marciano could not beat either Vitali or Wlad as he was well under the cruiserweight limit.

      End of story.

      "SO DON'T GIVE ME THAT BULLsh*t THAT ALI WAS UNDISCIPLINED AND HE TRAINED WITH NO HEART INTO THE PROCESS."

      Not bullsh*t at all. It was reported at the time that Ali was out of shape and Angelo Dundee confirmed it.

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      • Tommo says:
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        [ip2username: Loze Xivu]
        #6481 Tommo (2013-08-17th)

        Nuthuggers are always quick to point out "this historian, this fighter or this trainer" said this and that to back their opinion until it goes against them then they are dismissive lol funny that!

        One mans opinion I DO value is that of Evander Holyfield. He mostly kept it real.

        When asked during an interview once he was scripted to say that Ali was the greatest and boxing had faltered in recent times. But he didn't follow the script and told the audience the sport had progressed and he had taken what had come before and built upon it. He told how they do not have to fight as much as in the old days, using the recovery period for more specific training and do not take the same amount of damage as in the old days and are always peaking so are more effective than ever. He said they understand the value of strength and athleticism these days and any who disagree over it's importance do not have to fight against it.

        An accurate summary of modern boxing compared to old!

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  • jacob says:
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    [ip2username: Jybo Sepi]
    #6508 jacob (2013-09-16th)

    I'll start by first saying I'm a black American. Keep that in mind while I make my points. First, this article is very well written and claims to the contrary are in my opinion (as most of the comments on here are) likely trolling or not objective. With that out of the way i'll say that this article is grounded in semantics and stats in a vaccum. Like all sports, and I do mean ALL sports, over time training becomes more based in math and science and competitors find ways to train and in perform more efficiently so questioning Ali's or any old athlete's greatness in comparison to the greats of today is unbalanced. greatness, in my opinion, should be judged in relation to one's peers. Dominance, in any era, is still dominance. The writer in the article uses numbers from fighters who bennefited from advancements in modern sports science to buffer his claims of the ineptitude of fighters who had none of those advantages. That's makes for an unbalanced argument on its own but this writer takes it a step further and consistently attaches the old fighters and fight fans to Americans which implies that the superior fighters are non-americans. I'm not surprised at the outrage in some of the comments, but choose not to join in because while some of the facts in this article are just that, facts, The argument is GROSSLY incomplete – intentional or not, that's anyone's guess. I will say though that the irony of such subjective and opinion filled writing being presented as an objective solution to restrictions in free speech is hilarious….in my humble opinion ;)

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    • Tommo1 says:
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      [ip2username: Nedi Ruwa]
      #6546 Tommo1 (2013-11-02nd)

      I understand your position here but the irony is the moment you bring up any real life stats or facts on Boxing Scene or Boxing News 24 you are attacked and banned and all your comments deleted. Here there IS freedom of speech, kind of completely sh*ts on your opinion.

      Now I'm sure there are good Americans but a seemingly smart guy like you sound must know the propaganda promoting these old champions and degrading current ones is primarily an American one driven by their own interests…

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  • David says:
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    [ip2username: Boze Sinu]
    #6536 David (2013-10-23rd)

    Subjects like this shouldn't be debated. Someone pointed out sport sciences have drastically changed and who's to say that Ali wouldn't have become the best fighter in modern day boxing with the benefit of sports science today. So please stop trying to argue what would happen today with the greatest fighters of yesterday. You sound like a racist retard that knows nothing about the sport, and by the way I'm a Golden Gloves fighter that benefits from modern day sports science.

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  • Ian says:
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    [ip2username: Myxo Weki]
    #7060 Ian (2014-03-14th)

    Reading this analysis of Ali/Frazier is a joke at best. I am not an Ali fan- but you have to give the man his due. The fact is he beat the overwhelming majority of the best heavyweights in the world in the 60's and 70's and these fighters were outstanding.

    In the 60's- Ali was almost non hittable and was able to tag his opponent at will. Granted, he did not have a knockout punch but was able to knock out his opponent after landing multiple shots. His opponent's face was cut, bloated, and looked deformed after the fight. When Ali fought Listen, Ali knew it was not smart to exchange shots- hence he relied on his hand and foot speed and tagged Listen constantly. Listen had an 84 inch reach- was not slow (might have been old but he was not slow) and had knockout power in both hands. He also had perhaps the best and most powerful jab in the history of boxing heavyweights. Regardless, he couldn't catch Ali and Liston's face was quite swelled after the fight. Liston played dirty by rubbing something in Ali's eyes at the end of the 4th round and Ali fought basically blind for the 1st 2 minutes of the 5th round- yet Liston couldn't could not take advantage and Ali punished him at the end of the 5th and all of the 6th rounds.

    To even think that either Klitschko could beat Ali is laughable- just as laughable as saying Hayes or Byrd were better than who Ali fought. Ali would toy with either brother and would win a one sided victory at worst and most likely would knock either of them out in the later rounds. Either brother would find it almost impossible to hit Ali and even if they did neither could knockout Ali (Ali was down only 3 times- against Henry Cooper, Joe Frazier, and Chuck Wepner). Ali's chin was seriously underrated.

    As for Joe Frazier- the man might have had the best left hook in the business. In addition, to say he was out of shape (I'm guessing you were looking at his arms and chest) is simply absurd and it tells me your boxing IQ is limited. Look at the mans legs and butt (where punching power comes from) and you will see what kind of conditioning Frazier put his body thru. If you need the ultimate proof- lets see either Klitch brother survive the heat and humidity that Frazier and Ali dealt with in the Thrilla in Manila. Frazier, like Ali, fought everyone in the heavyweight division.

    Frazier, who you claim had little punching power knocked out 27 out of his 32 victories. When Larry Holmes was his sparring partner in the early 70's, a body shot from Frazier cracked 2 of Holmes' ribs. Frazier's reach was only 73 1/2 inches- and shorter arms usually deliver significant power. If you need another example- Rocky Marciano only had a reach of 67 inches but was probably the hardest hitting heavyweight champ even though he only weighted 185 pounds (and FYI- when Marciano fought bigger guys, he took them apart with his punching power. In the early 1950's he fought a big strong boxer named Carmine Vingo who was 6'4" and 220 lbs. Marciano hurt him so badly that Vingo had to retire and was never the same).

    Frazier was a devastating body puncher and he had the heart of a champion. Jimmy Ellis was a shell of his former self after fighter Frazier as was Buster Mathis. Ali was never the same after the beating he took in the Thrilla in Manila. Against either of the Klitch brothers- i will reserve my opinion because Frazier showed he had issues with tall and strong guys (George Foreman). However, if Joe got inside and pounded at their kidneys and liver, or continued the pressure into the later rounds- I doubt either brother would have the heart and endurance to last.

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    • Jethro's Flute says:
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      [ip2username: Vebi Dupa]
      #7596 Jethro's Flute (2014-10-14th)

      "Frazier, who you claim had little punching power knocked out 27 out of his 32 victories."

      Most of them against men he outweighed and who would not be heavyweights today.

      Carmine Vingo, btw, was not 220lbs.

      Ali was the one dishing out a beating in Manila. He wasn't as fit as Frazier going in to the fight but was well ahead in the scoring when the fight was stopped. Frazier was in such a terrible state, unable to hold his hands up or see, that my mum could have won the 15th round against him if he had been allowed to leave the corner.

      His life was in desperate danger in Manila.

      " even think that either Klitschko could beat Ali is laughable- just as laughable as saying Hayes or Byrd were better than who Ali fought. Ali would toy with either brother and would win a one sided victory at worst and most likely would knock either of them out in the later rounds. "

      Ali has no knockout power. You are deluded.

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  • ian says:
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    [ip2username: Xeni Suda]
    #7142 ian (2014-05-05th)

    FIRST OFF I WANT TO STATE THAT I CANT STAND ALIS FIGHTING STYLE, I HATE WATCHING BOXERS THAT VERY RARELY ENGAGE, I HATE IT,HE WOULD THROW ONE OR TWO PUNCHES AND THEN DANCE AROUND HIS OPPONENT.TERRIBLE AND BORING .

    I AM COMPLETELY BAFFLED AS TO HOW PEOPLE VIEW ALI AND FRASIER, THEY ARE CRIMINALLY OVERATED TO THE POINT OF ABSURDITY, SERIOUSLY WHAT THE f*ck, LIKE HOW AND WHY DO PEOPLE THINK THEY ARE GREAT WHEN THEY ARE EXTREMELY LIMITED, TODAY EVEN GUYS LIKE ADAMEK OR CUNNINGHAM WOULD BEAT THEM LET ALONE WLADIMIR, ITS SUCH BULLsh*t GREAT BOXERS FROM TODAY THAT WOUKLD LITERALLY DESTROY ALI OR FRASIER WONT BE REMEMBERED AS LEGENDS, HOW DOES THAT WORK.

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  • ian says:
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    [ip2username: Xeni Suda]
    #7143 ian (2014-05-05th)

    ALI AND FRAZIER WOULD EVEN BE BEATEN BY ROY JONES JNR AND CALZAGHE AND HOPKINS PROBABLY VERY EASILY TOO IF THEY WERE FIGHTING TODAY. SO IMAGINE WHAT A LEGEND AND GREAT LIKE WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO WOULD DO TO THOSE 2 MONKEYS. ALI WAS NOTHING BUT A DRAFT DODGING, NASTY, RACIST, muslim, COWARD, REFUSING TO ENGAGE HIS OPPONENTS AND THEN CHEATING ON TOP ON THAT.

    The so called golden era was anything but, i dont understand, really, Golden Era of what, of sucking big time, the Russian nations were not competing back then so it was really the American Era and boxers only competed against other Americans mainly, how is that a golden era?????
    Now we have all the nations participating, it is great . not just stupid ignorant limited Black muslims or whatever he was .

    And on top of all his bullsh*t, ali was a muslim too , like a muslim , he would be hated today.
    Joe frasier helped him out and he called joe an Uncle tom and a gorilla, he was a horrible person, a sh*t boxer, a coward, a muslim etc etc and people love him, HUH ????? biggest mystery ever.

    Why cause he could Rymm, gee whiz so the cat sat on the mat wow.

    When he was still relatively young for a boxer he was shaking from all the punishment he took, how is that good , the proof is in the pudding, he got f*cked up so much that he was f*cked when he was like 35.how is that a legend??????? in boxing golden rule is hit and dont get hit and Wladimir has done this better than anyone in history.Stupid ali used to let people hit him to tire them out, WHAT KIND OF UTTER BULLsh*t GAME PLAN IS THAT, NO WONDER THE MAN IS A GIBBERING IDIOT NOW. AND DESERVIDELY SO.

    FOR ANYONE WHO WANTS TO SEE HOW SO CALLED "GREAT" ALI AND FRASIER WERE JUST GO WATCH ALI VS LARRY HOLME, HOLMES DESTROYED ALI COMPLETELY AND ALI WAS STILL YOUNG, AND HOLMES IS A POOR MANS WLADIMIR.WLADIMIR WOULD BEAT ALI JUST WITH HIS JAB EASILY HELL EVEN LEAPAI WOULD BEAT ALI AND KO FRASIER.

    THEN WATCH FRASIER VS FOREMAN, FRASIER WAS BEATEN LIKE HE WAS 10 YEARS OLD.

    IS THIS GREATNESS??????????????????????????

    BIGGEST MYSTERY EVER HOW THESE CHUMPS WERE LABELLED GREAT, AND ITS ACTUALLY SAD BECAUSE GREAT FIGHTERS THAT WOULD OF KILLED ALI OR FRASIER (FAR TOO MANY TO MENTION) DO NOT GET 10% OF THE CREDIT THAT THESE 2 PRETENDERS GET LIKE TONY THOMPSON AS AN EXAMPLE, HE WOULDVE BEATEN THESE BUMS BUT GETS NO CREDIT, PEOPLE CALL HIM A BUM CAUSE HE WAS DEFEATED SO EASLIY BY WLAD, WLAD MAKES HIS OPPONENTS LOOK LIKE THEY ARE BUMS BUT IN REALITY THEY ARE VERY SKILLED HEAVYWEIGHTS. 90% OF THE HEAVIES TODAY WOULD HAVE RULED THE SO CALLED GOLDEN ERA.

    WHAT A DISGRACE .

    IT MAKES ME SAD.

    STUPID AMERICAN PROPAGANDA.

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    • Aggro says:
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      [ip2username: Wote Disu]
      #7404 Aggro (2014-07-16th)

      Good post

      While some people always talk about that era as being competitive as great.
      So what?

      That's mainly b/c they were all at the same mediocre level.
      That's why it was competitive.
      Nothing to do with being great or such.

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  • ian says:
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    [ip2username: Xeni Suda]
    #7144 ian (2014-05-05th)

    EVEN TYSON AND FOREMAN DONT GET A QUARTER OF THE RESPECT THAT ALI DOES YET THEY WERE MUCH BETTER THAN THAT COWARD. FORMAN WOULD BEAT ALI 8 TIMES OUT OF 10. AND FOREMAN DOES NOT HAVE THE POWER OR REACH OR HEIGHT OR STRENGTH OR SKILLS OF WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO. SO IMAGINE. ALI IS NOT RELEVANT .PERIOD, HIS NAME SHOULD NOT BE MENTIONED IN DISCUSSIONS ABOUT BOXING BECAUSE HE WAS A CHUMP.
    JUST NOT RELEVANT .

    ALI AND FRASIER WENT LIFE OR DEATH WHEN THEY FOUGHT, THAT ALONE TELLS A STORY BECAUSE FRASIER IS A JOKE , TODAY WOULD BE FIGHTING LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHT IF THAT AND THAT STUPID BOB AND WEAVE STYLE, TERRIBLE WASTED FAR TOO MUCH ENERGY. NOT EFFICIENT.FLOYD WOULD PROBABLY BE COMPETITIVE WITH FRASIER.

    THERE ARE ONLY 1 0R 2 BOXERS IN HISTORY THAT WOULD STAND A PUNCHERS CHANCE AGAINST EITHER KLITSCHKO, 1 IS LEWIS AND THE OTHER IS FOREMAN EVEN SMALLER CHANCE, THE REST, FORGET IT.
    WLAD IN PARTICULAR IS TOO GOOD, TOO BIG ,TOO STRONG, TOO SKILLED,

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  • ian says:
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    [ip2username: Xeni Suda]
    #7145 ian (2014-05-05th)

    YOU KNOW THERE ARE ACTUALLY PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO THINK ALI OR EVEN WORSE FRASIER WOULD BEAT WLADIMIR, THINK ABOUT THAT OBJECTIVELY, NOT WITH YOUR HEART BUT WITH YOUR HEAD, EVERY SOUL WHO THINKS THAT DOES NOT KNOW THE SPORT, HELL I DONT KNOW THE SPORT, I AM A KEEN FOLLOWER AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND THE SPORT AND THERE IS NO WAY EVER LIKE NEVER EVER WOULD WLAD LOSE TO THOSE 2.

    ON ONE SIDE YOU HAVE 2 VERY SMALL HEAVYWEIGHTS LIKE CRUISERS REALLY AGAINST A SUPER HEAVYWEIGHT WITH THE BEST JAB EVER, BEST DEFENCE EVER,BEST TECHNICIAN, BEST CONDITIONED EVER, VERY STRONG , GOOD REACH, VERY SOUND STRATEGY, ETC ETC , COMMON,, IT IS A MISMATCH ACTUALLY .

    people who think that ali would win are either VERY dumb or are just trolling .

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  • Aggro says:
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    [ip2username: Wote Disu]
    #7405 Aggro (2014-07-16th)

    Truth is, biggest flaw as a heavyweight is Ali didn't have a punch = feather fists

    Ali in a nutshell: no punch, no defense, no stamina

    Ali slapped most of the time instead of with closed fist.
    No power as his feet were not planted or he was on the back foot running away

    Reason why most of his fights lasted 15 rounds was b/c he couldn't knock them out cos he had no power
    (barring a gassed Foreman in 100' C temperature. I'd pick Foreman to win 8 times out of 10)

    Chubby Ali & his feather fists

    Ali and Frazier are two of the most feather fisted heavyweight world champs who ever lived
    and that's why their fights lasted so many rounds without a proper KO.

    In fact, due to Ali's ineptness, he MADE Frazier, Norton & others of that era look good!
    Most were just brawlers with no defense, face forward, swinging, rock em sock em robots.

    Any time weak chinned brawlers Frazier, Norton faced a puncher they were rolling around the floor.
    I mean Norton only took up boxing at 20 in the army.
    So how good could he have been with his limited experience…yet he gave Ali all he could handle.
    In fact Norton arguably won 1 or 2 of their fights.
    Destroyed by anyone with a decent punch: Foreman, Cooney.

    While people always talk about that era as being competitive as great. So what?
    That's mainly b/c they were all at the same mediocre level. That's why it was competitive.
    Nothing to do with being great or such

    Ali lost & given a boxing lesson by novice Leon Spinks with 10 fights experience.
    Any other champion even without training or even retired would have thrashed him.

    Smokin' Joe Frazier was blind on his left eye his entire professional career.
    And Ali still couldn't knock him out!

    If Ali got knocked down by a 175 lb Henry Cooper (in his younger days), had he been hit by the Superheavyweights of the modern era he would have DIED.

    Fact that he started at 175 lb showed that he was a fat, blownup cruiserweight at best who would've been destroyed by todays heavys & fighters from Holmes era…

    Frazier got knocked down 6 times by Foreman & got up 6 times…
    The only difference had he met any big puncher like Tyson, Lewis, Klitschko etc…he wouldn't have got up after the 1st knockdown! LOL

    That sums up the pathetic state of "golden age" heavyweight boxing in the 1970's:
    2 fat, chubby blown up cruiserweights with no punching power.
    The rest mostly feather fisted brawlers.
    Even Shavers punching power is overrated.
    Good for his time compared to all the other feather fisted fighters then but NOTHING nowadays.
    LOL

    In fact anyone with a left hook would beat Ali.
    Completely oblivious to it, all the time.

    That & no punching power to worry his opponents

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    • Jethro's Flute says:
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      [ip2username: Vebi Dupa]
      #7597 Jethro's Flute (2014-10-14th)

      "Frazier got knocked down 6 times by Foreman & got up 6 times…
      The only difference had he met any big puncher like Tyson, Lewis, Klitschko etc…he wouldn't have got up after the 1st knockdown! LOL"

      Tyson a bigger puncher than Foreman?

      I doubt it but He, Lewis and Klitschko would deck Frazier at will until the referee came to Frazier's rescue.

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    • Tommo says:
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      [ip2username: Xydo Kedi]
      #7626 Tommo (2014-10-23rd)

      Haha, you are a legend, and absolutely spot on too! ;)

      I like the last bit, anybody with a left hook would beat Ali.

      I made threads on boxingscene and boxing24 once regarding Tommy Morrison whipping Ali and there were only a handful of ppl intelligent enough there to see that it was true, most were just brainwashed fools in the grips of idol worship!

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  • Robwill says:
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    [ip2username: Vura Pyvo]
    #7681 Robwill (2014-11-07th)

    I ve watched the Haye Klitschtko fight : nothing more exciting to talk about in the Klit career ??? I Suppose no. That's quite normal, as Klit is one of the most boring and uncarismatic boxer ever seen on a ring.
    Your website could be very interesting if only you were really objectiv, and not so disrespecfull with such great champions as Frazier and Ali. The result is, we only wait for you to shut up you're sh*ty mouth, drop your knees on the floor and ask for mercy to the soul of Smokin Joe.
    Klit is as skilled and fast as a pregnant elephant – maybe as powerfull too, but what a f…cking boring jaber ! And so unskilled and boring is the whole hw division by now, that's why the stars are welterweight and middleweight.
    Golden era it was, for sure !
    Keep your untasty and soon-to-be-forgotten-bodybuilt chumps, kiss their but and go away. Have you ever spared on a ring ? Even worn gloves ? Or just seen gloves ?
    Can't stand ass…les like you.

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  • Robwill says:
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    [ip2username: Vura Pyvo]
    #7682 Robwill (2014-11-07th)

    About Frazier : look at his bout with Chuvalo, and come back to tell me he had no defense skill and no punch – you ignorant.

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  • Robwill says:
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    [ip2username: Vura Pyvo]
    #7683 Robwill (2014-11-07th)

    If you 'd ve read the Angelo Dundee book, you should know that Ali trained harder than anybody else ( excepted… Frazier ! ) before a fight.
    Obviously, you didn't : so don't pretend, shut up and apology to the souls of the great champions you treated so disrespecfully, you less than a flattened sh…t under the shoe of Smokin Joe.

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  • robwill says:
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    [ip2username: Vura Pyvo]
    #7693 robwill (2014-11-11th)

    Your very problem is, you re trying to explain boxin as a statistician. But boxing has clearly nothing to do with statistics, nor logic, nor mathematics.
    Following your way of thinking, let 's try to explain this :
    – Quarry beat both Shavers (one of the best puncher ever, according to you – knocked cold out at 1st round) and Lyle
    -Lyle beat Shavers (one of the best etc.) and kicked the hell out of Foreman – and eventually lost, but could have won as well
    -Frazier beat Quarry twice, without any contestation
    -Foreman pulverized Frazier twice : WHERE IS THE LOGIC THERE ?

    More : according to your criteria of "athleticity", which is based on obvious strongness (big body-built muscles = fighting power), i guess you re pretty embarassed watching the fat Quarry shooting down the so well muscle-sculpted Shavers, and winning to the Hulk-like-built Lyle ?

    A suggestion, to make the things very clear : every commentator here should precise if he practices boxing, or ever has practiced, no matter for competition or not. Cause a lot of fellows really seem to have no notion at all about this sport by there, even the mostly elementary. You in first, of course.

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  • Jethro's Flute says:
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    [ip2username: Ryto Geji]
    #7702 Jethro's Flute (2014-11-16th)

    Over at Boxing.com, a writer picked his subjective 100 best heavyweights of all time and had Frazier ahead of Foreman.

    How on earth he worked that out when Foreman nearly killed him twice, I do not know

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  • Dave says:
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    [ip2username: Wiku Gary]
    #7815 Dave (2015-02-07th)

    The original Ali-Frazier fight is overrated. It was more an event than a great fight. The 3rd was much better. The OP has the unfortunate affliction of seizing upon any absurd and misguided modern view of the U.S. Well, we know where that goes. Any weapon to be used against the U.S. no matter how lacking in reality. However, the points made to support his opinions never take into consideration the fact that Ali and Frazier were both facing much better opposition than any that exists today. Modern boxing is so diluted that few fighters are ever forced to learn their craft as they did in prior eras. It isn't necessary because "World Championships" are so easy to gain today. Does anyone – besides the OP – really consider Lionel Butler to have been a champion? No. Modern boxing is sadly a joke compared to the past. The one sport that has truly regressed. David Haye? Seriously? Ron Lyle would have crushed him. The Klitshckos have done the best they could but they have been the best of a sorry lot. I feel sad for anyone who thinks that modern boxing is the real thing. The last great era was the 1970's. I was just a kid then and have followed the downward slide ever since. Not that the 70's was the best era, mind you, just the last great one. Anyone who thinks that boxing has improved over the last twenty years is laughable.

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  • Dave says:
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    [ip2username: Wiku Gary]
    #7816 Dave (2015-02-07th)

    Frazier was past his prime by the time he faced Foreman the FIRST time and was simply a bad matchup size and style wise. That's how he is rated over Foreman.

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  • Dave says:
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    [ip2username: Wiku Gary]
    #7817 Dave (2015-02-07th)

    By the way, to show that I am not an Ali worshipper, I would place Joe Louis above him as the greatest heavyweight champion.

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  • Robert Broome says:
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    [ip2username: Nipu Rary]
    #7818 Robert Broome (2015-02-08th)

    I was watching Ibeabuchi vs Tua and decided to alternate rounds of watching Ali- Frazier 1. The older fellas didn't have the powerful bodies that their modern counterparts possess, but watching these fights at the same time shows a completely separate level of speed, fluidity and body movement.

    There are things in both Ali and Frazier that can not be measured in height, weight and sheer power. It's what boxing is about, fighting style. Both were unique and effective. That's why both became champion and reigned in an era when there were plenty of bigger, stronger and harder hitting guys around.

    Ali was a very good athlete in his prime with a lot of fighting spirit and a superb chin. That's why he was able to clean the division out on multiple occasions. He did so by taking out some very big and powerful fighters. Foreman, Lyle, Shavers, Liston, etc. I trained in a gym in Vegas where Lyle trained fighters and I've seen this old guy next to a lot of modern heavies like Hassim Rahman and Sam Peter. He was bigger than both.

    In my opinion, Ali is over hyped, but still a real great for his day. To me, Holmes was a taller, faster, harder hitting and technically better version of Ali without the personality. I think he would do well against any of the modern giants. There are pics of him online with Vlad and Lewis and the size difference is not much at all. He had the ability to dig deep in fights like these guys rarely do.

    In no way does Ali do well against the K- Brothers and Lewis. His style had too many holes and he did not have the power to do well. These guys aren't gonna be dope a doped or tricked.

    On another note, I firmly believe that Frazier would give Vlad a very good go with his aggression and Bob and Weave style. Vlad does not have the abilities of his older brother and would need to grab and clinch quite a bit like he did with Peter. I think that Frazier would have a chance at getting a stoppage. Against Lewis and Vitali, Smoke would have NO CHANCE. Holmes has great footwork and a much better jab than Ali. He would have beaten Frazier also.

    All of the fighters are superb. The article is very unfair to a guy like Ali that had most of his big fights after his prime and was at his best nearly 50 years ago. Frazier was small for his day and is tiny in the super heavyweight era.

    Judging champions from decades ago vs today is not a fair comparison.

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