Wladimir Klitschko – Best world heavyweight champion of all time?

NOBODY TRANSFORMED BOXING as much as Wladimir Klitschko.

Think about it: His jab, footwork, defense and offense are so unbelievably good that he completely transformed boxing to a higher level because NOT ONE of the usual strategies or boxing styles works against him.

He proved uppercuts, combos, feinting, swarming etc to be near-worthless (in the case of his opponents) and unnecessary (in the case of himself). Thus by his perfect minimalistic-seeming technique he actually shows how bad previous generations of boxers were who could win with such techniques like feinting and combos.

Nobody transformed boxing as much as Wladimir. He is the blueprint for what strategies work (in his case) and don't work (in his opponents' case).

Wladimir Klitschko is the measuring stick for champions of the past and future.
"Is he the best? For sure he is the test"

 

When boxing fans discuss "What boxer of the past could beat Wladimir Klitschko?" they have not many choices, because Wladimir Klitschko was effective against every boxing style and against every body type.

Of course you might say "A hard puncher like George Foreman has the best chances against Wladimir Klitschko", but that's only because powerful boxers (like Foreman) have chances against anybody. It's not because Wladimir would be especially susceptible to power punchers. And in fact if you think that a hard puncher has a chance against anybody it equally means that Wladimir Klitschko has an even greater chance against George Foreman since Wladimir Klitschko is even a greater puncher than Foreman.

Let's take for example Wladimir Klitschko vs Fast Eddie Chambers.

·Eddie Chambers tried everything from legal to illegal

  • Lifting Wlad and throwing him on the floor (this illegal uplifting possibly spared Chambers an early KO)
  • Escaping out of the clinch sideways and go to the body from behind
  • Out-speeding Wlad
  • Punching Wlad's left arm (while Wlad was jabbing him)
  • Jumping up to punch Wlad
  • Initiating the clinch
  • Ducking the jab, moving sideways and punching back
  • Punching while Klitschko was clinching him
  • Rabbit punching while Klitschko was clinching him
  • Clinching Klitschko and rotate him
  • Going to the body
  • Going forward
  • Going backward
  • Leaning on the ropes
  • Standing in the middle of the ring
  • Getting an additional breather during a glove change
  • Attacking
  • Running

And yet Klitschko was winning every round and delivered one of the most brutal KOs ever. Eddie Chambers even stopped to breathe.

What did Eddie Chambers say one year later?

"Wladimir Klitschko is the main man. Even if he retires: I'm still modeling myself to be a model of what Klitschko is. Of what a real, real fighter is. And that's him."
Eddie Chambers

 

 

How many rounds did Wladimir Klitschko lose in his career?

Klitschko has boxed now approximately 60 fights and 250 rounds and has been exposed to every imaginable opponent.

From the slick counter-puncher to the brute-force swarmer.

He has been out-weighed, out-talled, out-reached, out-experienced and out-aged (= by younger-than-self opponents).

Nothing worked.

The rounds that Wladimir Klitschko clearly lost can be counted on 1 hand.

There is no boxing style that works against him. Yes, he lost against Brewster and Puritty but not because of their styles but because of HIS OWN style (= he punched himself out). The only opponent with a troubling style was Corrie Sanders, but the actual loss happened because of the vicious anviling headbutt of which Klitschko never recovered.

Wladimir Klitschko is so dominant that NOBODY wants to see a rematch against his opponents.
He would even be a clear favorite against his unavenged-loss-opponents.

-and-

Wladimir Klitschko's losses to Ross, Corrie and Lamon
are not the proof of Wladimir's limitedness
but the reason why he is so dominating now.
He learned and improved.

 

 

Are Klitschkos' opponents worse than in previous eras?

After watching so many ancient fights (Muhammad Ali etc) I am utterly UNIMPRESSED by ancient eras (except by George Foreman).

Back in the days heavyweights were far worse than nowadays heavies. Slower, less athletic, less powerful, lighter.

Prime George Foreman (whom they called Big George Foreman)
would be
Wladimir Klitschko's BOTTOM-10 LIGHTEST opponent
and would be
Vitali Klitschko's BOTTOM-3 LIGHTEST opponent

There is no comparison to modern opponents with their power and conditioning and amount of muscles.

Half of Wladimir Klitschko's opponents would have ruled the Golden Age of Boxing, let alone Klitschko himself: From Sam Peter to Tony Thompson. From Chris Byrd to Chris Arreola. These are superb boxers who would have steamrolled over the "Golden Age".

I have seen nothing in the arsenal of the 1970s Golden Boys to withstand modern heavyweight fighters.

 

 

Is Wladimir Klitschko the best heavyweight boxer of all time?

Just imagine yourself entering the ring for a world title fight.

  • Your opponent is a proven boxer
  • Or someone being praised as "the next big thing"
  • Maybe an unbeaten southpaw
  • Or someone who has never lost a fight before
  • Or a former world champion, or even a beater of a world champion
  • Or a current world champion
  • Or one of the best KO'ers with a KO'ratio of 75%, 85% or even 90%
  • Or one of the fastest boxers of all time

 

And yet you manage to dominate him round after round without even getting hit properly once.

THIS! is the performance of Wladimir Klitschko.

Wladimir Klitschko is a BOXING PHENOMENON. Never in the history of boxing did something like him exist.

He barely gets hit against ANY TYPE of opponent.

 

Just notice for example how previous champs of other eras (Larry Holmes, James Toney, Evan Fields, Clay/Ali) slur their speech from all the hits they received.

When you watch their fights it's a never ending brawl.

Wladimir Klitschko on the other hand dominates his opponents as if they were school boys.

Take for example Jean-Marc Mormeck. If you would watch just this one fight (Klitschko vs Mormeck) you might think that it's some sparring session against Jean-Marc, the school-boy.

Yet Mormeck was weighing 216 lbs of pure muscles (= heavier than Muhammad Ali and approximately as heavy as 1970s George Foreman, median weight 217 lbs) and was a former multiple world champion with 36 wins on his record.

Now, nobody claims that Mormeck had the KO'power of George Foreman or the stink'n'run tactic of Clay/Ali. But the chancelessness of Mormeck and the dominance of Wladimir Klitschko was breathtaking.

In fact the word "dominance" is actually too weak. It's "humiliating dominance". Wladimir Klitschko breaks his opponents and leaves them no hope because…

  • whatever they planned is interrupted (by superb footwork, speed etc)
  • whatever they learned is impossible to apply
  • whatever they try fails

…and…

  • is instantly punished.

No other heavyweight world champ to date
has overwhelmed his opponents by such a dominance
as Wladimir Klitschko

 

 

Manuel & Manual

If you want to be picky about it: Not Wladimir alone transformed boxing but Wladimir and his trainer Emanuel Steward ("Manuel & Manual").

How Wladimir would have evolved without Emanuel is speculation but I saw the early (= pre-Steward) version of ·Lennox Lewis and I saw the early (pre-Steward) version of Wladimir and early Wladimir looked far more impressive than early Lennox.

In fact, Emanuel Steward was impressed himself as you can hear from his comments on Klitschko vs Ray Mercer.

Thus Emanuel Steward is the best trainer of all time and Wladimir Klitschko is the most advanced heavyweight boxer Emanuel started to work with of all time.

 

 

A superb performance as PROVEN by Klitschko's record

I analyze dozens of stats here on my website ("KO'ratio against unbeaten opponents", "Rounds between KOs", "KOs in later rounds", "KOs in early rounds", "Wins against heavier-than-self opponents", "Wins in world title fights", …) and nobody is at the top in so many stats as Wlad.

So often I heard boxing fans marvel at a boxer's footwork, speed, reflexes, feinting, ring IQ… you name it.

And yet, when you analyze the record it's usually far less impressive than Wladimir Klitschko's.

Thus what they marvel at is IRRELEVANT or only very marginally relevant.

If you are the fastest boxer who ever lived BUT LOSE all your fights then your speed was not really relevant because something else was lacking.

Since Wladimir Klitschko is at the top of so many statistics he features the full set of everything a heavyweight boxer should have: working attitude, focus, speed, stamina, accuracy etc etc…

 

 

Even Klitschko haters admit unknowingly that Wladimir Klitschko is one of the most talented boxers ever

When you analyze previous champs then MOST of them are said to have great chins (Ali, Holmes, Evan Fields, …).

And when you believe haters then Wladimir Klitschko has a glass chin (= is easy to KO once you manage to connect).

I personally believe that the quality of the chin of Wladimir Klitschko is rather unknown, but let's see where this thought leads us:

If Wladimir Klitschko indeed is chinny it actually means that he is far more talented than other champs because he wins his fights based on skills (since his chin won't protect him) while other champs were hit far often (as is proven by their slurring speech, e.g. Ali, Frazier, Holmes, Evan Fields, …) and thus won their fights based on chin and less on talent (since if they had huge talent they wouldn't have been hit so much).

Thus haters unintentionally admit that Wladimir Klitschko is more talented than previous champs.

 

 

"Wladimir Klitschko is the most boring and limited heavyweight boxer of all times"

I discussed that in detail at Heavyweight boxing died since boring Wladimir Klitschko killed the division -OR- American and British Complainers

In short: The typical complaint is…

"Wladimir Klitschko is boring because he has only a limited number of moves" ("jab, jab, grab").

But something is wrong with this complaint. What?

This complaint is wrong because makes it utterly unexplainable how a boxer with such a supposedly limited, unimpressive and PREDICTABLE style has such a good record and how he can win round after round and how he kayos his opponents so surely. He now has faced and kayoed ALL KINDS of opponents with ALL TYPES of boxing styles.

Obviously there is far more to Wladimir than "limitedness" and "predictability".

Thus there is only one conclusion: Perfection and dominance themselves can be boring just like the 256th missile that hits exactly where it's supposed to hit.

Yes, Wladimir Klitschko's boxing style is predictable and boring…
…he predictably bored nearly all opponents to sleep.

 

 

Wladimir Klitschko vs Vitali Klitschko -OR- Which of the Klitschko brothers is the best?

I know, nearly everything I wrote here applies also to Vitali Klitschko.

But a question like "Which Klitschko is better?" has to consider that Vitali's career spans less opponents and less styles and less good opponents and therefore Wladimir is more impressive to me.

Additionally I find Vitali's style to be too special. His style is a mix of an extremely low hanging left hand, bolo punching and leaning back. It mainly works when you are very tall and have a hard chin and thus I find it (in the sense of "transforming boxing" and "blueprinting") not too copyable. Moreover an experienced and reachy boxer (like Lennox Lewis) will always be capable of breaching the defense. Just look at Vitali's face:

vk
Klitschko vs Lewis

No, it's not by chance that Vitali Klitschko's LEFT side got affected (left eye, left cheek, left side of the lip). Klitschko's low left defense was exposed. It works most of the time but it won't work all of the time.

I consider Wladimir's style far less penetrable than Vitali's. I consider Vitali being more beatable than Wladimir. I see Vitali eating more punches than Wladimir, although the impression for the casual fan might be vice versa, because Vitali has a higher output, hence him being hit attracts only little attention.

Actually, I give Wladimir more chances against prime Lennox Lewis than I give Vitali.

But I do not claim that Vitali had won had his eye stayed uncut. And I do not claim that Wladimir would win against Vitali.

AND I AGREE that it's a matter of taste, and you can make a case for Vitali being the more transforming figure.

 

 

"Vitali Klitschko had to beat opponents for Wladimir Klitschko"

One frequent reproach against Wladimir Klitschko is that "the older brother (Vitali) had to finish the job the younger brother (Wlad) had failed to".

They allude to ·Ross Puritty (whom Wladimir lost to) and ·Corrie Sanders (whom again Wlad lost to). Both fights (against Ross and against Corrie) Vitali Klitschko won.

First of all the fight against Vitali -vs- Puritty happened 3 years after Wlad's loss. It was for the "WBA inter-continental heavyweight title" and had nothing to do with "rematching for his brother" (or as haters love to rephrase: "rematching for his sister") but was a mandatory title fight.

The same applies to Corrie Sanders:

Sanders dropped the WBO belt he won from Wladimir. Instead of rematching Wladimir he chose to fight (beltless) for the WBC belt against Vitali (beltless) to be the only man who would have beaten 2 Klitschkos. Again it was a mandatory thing and not a case of "I am ducking, please fight for me, brother".

The second thing that reproachers forget is that Wladimir Klitschko fought (and won) against 2 opponents Vitali Klitschko lost to: ·Chris Byrd (lost to in the ring) and ·Hasim Rahman (lost to by not appearing in the ring).

Thus the opposite is equally true: "Wladimir Klitschko cleaned up the unfinished business of Vitali Klitschko".

 

 

The Klitschko boxers

However you try to spin it: What these two boxer have done is unprecedented and is not normal, not typical and not usual.

Thus if you want to be picky about it the answer to "Who is the best heavyweight boxer of all time" might not be a single boxer but "The Klitschko brothers".

Enjoy them while they last.

 

See also Statistical analysis of heavyweight world championship records -OR- Joe Louis, Wladimir Klitschko, Muhammad Ali: Who has the best world title record?

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Wladimir Klitschko - Best world heavyweight champion of all time?, 3.6 out of 5 based on 47 ratings
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Comments (61)

  • This is a joke says:
    flag
    [ip2username: Kuna Jydo]
    #227 This is a joke (2011-05-01st)

    you lost all credibility when you said that Chris Arreola would have ruled the golden era of boxing.

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    • Admin says:
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      [ip2username: Suva Mywo]
      #232 Admin (2011-05-02nd)

      I am not specifically INSISTING on Arreola ruling anything. Instead of "Chris Arreola" I could have listed "Shannon Briggs", "Lamon Brewster" or whomever. I merely wanted to point out that even the kings of the 1970s (Joe Frazier, Ken Norton, Ali…) would have a hard time against A- and B level competition of the Klitschkos.

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  • Joe says:
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    [ip2username: Mupa Pyko]
    #269 Joe (2011-05-10th)

    A little biased? lol.

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  • Marv says:
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    [ip2username: Lei Ruka]
    #294 Marv (2011-05-19th)

    I just watched the highlights clip of Wlad on youtube. I haven't watched much fight game in many years. I am impressed with his fast hard strait punches (In my prime, as an amature boxer and street fighter I have had great success with those punches myself. HBO highlights did not show any opponents with top notch blocking skills against Wlad, but I will keep looking for footage. Also, did not see any top notch infighting against Wlad. I am not assuming someone could get in on him. I have seen more of Lennox Lewis fights and felt he had to keep his opponents outside, which he was good at. I believe if Tyson had been in his prime, he might have gotten close to Lewis and put him to sleep. Also most of the Wlad highlight had opponents that stood right in front of him. Did not see much head movement let alone first rate head movement. Wlad was fast, strong and direct (Bruce Lee encouraged this method) but he was punching sitting ducks for the most part- which is to say many of his opponents had second rate defense. Again, I'm only going by the limited footage and your accounts. Thanks for letting me input.

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    • Admin says:
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      [ip2username: Suva Mywo]
      #296 Admin (2011-05-19th)
      HBO highlights did not show any opponents with top notch blocking skills against Wlad… Did not see much head movement let alone first rate head movement. Wlad was fast, strong and direct (Bruce Lee encouraged this method) but he was punching sitting ducks for the most part-

      Prior to watching Wlad you have to watch his opponent in non-Wlad fights.

      A typical thing for Wlad is that he punishes every movement, especially head movement. Thus after a few rounds opponents won't move their heads anymore. They will just stand in front of him.

      First he pole'izes them then he pulver'izes them.

      You can not assess the quality of opponents by watching a Wlad fight.

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  • Marv says:
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    [ip2username: Lei Ruka]
    #302 Marv (2011-05-20th)

    A few various comments and then I'll hush up for a while, mainly because I agree with you – I would have to see Wlad's opponents other fights- that may take a while. You relate hardness of punch with knockouts which has credence but part of it is where your head is during the punch. It won't happen but accurate studies on those machines that measure a punches power or speed is another valid scientific way to go. I am currently looking at a second lumbar micro diskectomy; two years ago when my first back injury was already flaring,My son talked me into hitting one of those punching machines in a local pub. There were heavy guys scoring in the 900's taking a few steps foward and throwing various haymakers ( some jumping off the ground). At 167 lbs, I was scoring 900's with one short step and a strait jab – half the time it took the big fellas. On another note, While Marciano wasn't that fast, some of his overhand lefts were beautiful and timed just right. His face proves he ate more punches then needed by today's standards (which you have touched on)But the flip side is he could take a whuppin'. Also he was good at hitting anything he could reach(something Bruce Lee encouraged and yes I know Bruce is not boxing but Lee did incorporate western boxing in his concept). My point is, at the joy of showing my old timer love for Marciano, I pick him over Roy Jones Jr. I think Rock was as dangerous and could take more whuppin' and I think Roy was pretty good.
    Glad I found you. I'm on prednisone steroid for over a year for a serious leg wound and I drive my friends crazy saying how theoretically any bully that comes within three feet of me will go to sleep or lose part of their head quick. LOL I'm in my second puberty and it sucks!

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  • Vytas says:
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    [ip2username: Zeri Puna]
    #744 Vytas (2011-08-16th)

    Klitschko as a package BEST all time, specially when they were back to Europe ,agressive, brave, no one could stand for more then 3 rounds, no they just play safe and using 70% of what they have and yes 60-70" were too small and had no defense……

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  • richard yakoweshen says:
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    [ip2username: Kazy Xoje]
    #926 richard yakoweshen (2011-09-12th)

    exactly

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  • Daniel says:
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    [ip2username: Vome Pitu]
    #3167 Daniel (2011-12-03rd)

    Interesting blog…however, I'd have to disagree that he's the best boxer in the world. Wladamir is the best boxer of this era, not the era before. I do like Wladamir for his overall boxing tactics however boring other people think and his ways of wearing down opponents. There is nothing wrong to that, but comparing him to boxers back then, Ali, Tyson, Lewis, Holyfield, Foreman…it would be different in my point of view. Points about Wladamir and Vitali. Both are statistically beasts that are blessed with many phyiscal gifts which allow them to excell in the boxing world today. Reach, height, power, speed etc. Out of the 2 brothers, I would say Vitali is more unique and a overall better fighter. What makes boxers unique, as I mentioned, Speed, power, height and etc, they need all that but the thing that is most important is unpredictability. That I think is pretty crucial when it comes to boxing. My top tier boxers from era before and now would be in order…Lewis, Tyson, Ali, Vitali and Holyfield. I'd say Wladamir is like one level or 2 below them. Reason why is Wladamir lacks predictability and as a result, always sticks to hit and run tactics and that has brought him to he top with deadly arsenals at his command. But if you are going to pit in against fighters like Lewis and etc, it would result in Wladamir's loss, not a severe one but a loss is a loss. I don't want to have to go into details of each boxers stats and comparing it to Wladamir per fight, but I can't say I agree to everything you wrote.
    Wladamir is a fabulous boxer not going to lie and same as Vitali. Actually, I like Vitali more than Wladamir due to Vitali's unique way of boxing. But regardless, saying he's the best of all times to me sounds like bullsh*t.

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    • wesley says:
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      [ip2username: Loje Tibu]
      #3452 wesley (2011-12-20th)

      Yep and you would be about right with that assumption, of all the statistical rubbish i have read on this site, none compares to this…WLAD THE BEST HW OF ALL TIME…SERIOUSLY!!!????

      Are you winding us up? is this a joke? is this one of them \'paid for sites?\' are you actually wladimir klitcko?? becuase no one else would go along with this nonsense.

      Reality check..wlad is a very skilled. competent, heavyweight, who possess the most physical gifts oof his generation, which happens to be the lowest quality in history, the fighter who could challange him is his brother..who he wont fight.
      And the only one that is bigger than either of them valuev neither will fight!!! lol.

      He has not one single above average fighter on his resume, let alone a future hall of famer… how does wlad compare to say, ali,johnson,dempsy,holmes,frazier,holyfield,foreman,joe louis,rocky marciano,gene tunney,ezzard charles,lenox lewis,i could go on.

      The only way you could possibly warp that is to chop half there records away/discredit them with biased assumptions and altered stats.

      You discount the fact that diets and weights of the population have gone up and sports science has improved giving todays fighters greater average weights.

      Sorry utter drivel

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      • Admin says:
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        [ip2username: Suva Mywo]
        #3474 Admin (2011-12-25th)
        And the only one that is bigger than either of them valuev neither will fight!!! lol.

        Lol. Valuev lost 2 fights in his career: Against Ruslan Chagaev and David Haye. Wlad beat both of these guys completely one-sidedly.

        Additionally Wlad cannot fight Valuev, because Valuev retired.

        He has not one single above average fighter on his resume, let alone a future hall of famer…

        I pre-answered this already at
        [post=932]

        You discount the fact that diets and weights of the population have gone up and sports science has improved giving todays fighters greater average weights.

        Complete speculation that, say, Joe Louis' chin would get harder if he had modern milk shakes.

        Moreover I pre-answered this already at
        [post=488]
        –> "Lorentz contraction"

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        • Tommo says:
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          [ip2username: Puga Lyxo]
          #5614 Tommo (2013-03-24th)

          Wesley, absolutely ridiculous assessment, most of those fighters aren't even heavyweights. It would be like me bashing up a school kid. Where you mention his brother, Lennox and various other modern heavies we are in competitive territory but ezzard Charles vs wladimir for example? Are YOU for real? lol

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  • Honza says:
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    [ip2username: Bibu Mary]
    #3809 Honza (2012-03-06th)

    Haye vs. Wlad was absolutely even fight. Even czech boxer Kone?ný said that. It shut ended as draw or majority decision for one of the fighters.

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    • pery says:
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      [ip2username: Tajy Xore]
      #5024 pery (2012-10-15th)

      Sorry but it isn't even when one of the boxers is the whole time running away…

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      • Honza says:
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        [ip2username: Dibu Waby]
        #5248 Honza (2012-10-31st)

        And it is not even when one of boxers is still missing the target. Sometimes I feel that Klitschkos earn points just for standing in the ring.

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        • Admin says:
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          [ip2username: Suva Mywo]
          #5249 Admin (2012-10-31st)

          You will not find 1 round (of all the 486 rounds that the brothers have boxed) where a Klitschko was just standing around.

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          • Tommo says:
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            [ip2username: Puga Lyxo]
            #5615 Tommo (2013-03-24th)

            Klitschko is a workhorse true. Also true that Haye Klitschko was a very even fight. I mean Wladimir won fair and square. But it was a competitive fight that went the distance during which in no way was David's composure rocked. Wladimir did not dominate him, Haye was the best contest Wlad has had since he was last KO'd. This isn't proof Wlad is any lesser or not the greatest. Simply that Haye is a good fighter and Wlad is not SOOO much better that it is not competitive. He is a great boxer but we must not do to Wlad what AliFans do to Clay and pump him up to be invincible, he is still human and can be beat.

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  • Honza says:
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    [ip2username: Zura Pyso]
    #3997 Honza (2012-05-31st)

    Thus if you want to be picky about it the answer to "Who is the best heavyweight boxer of all time" might not be a single boxer but "The Klitschko brothers".

    In every other article you are saying that best heavyweights are Lewis and Wlad. And Wlads fight with Mormeck shows only what a crap Mormeck is and was. Sorry but it is a true.

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    • pery says:
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      [ip2username: Tajy Xore]
      #5025 pery (2012-10-15th)

      Mormeck is maybe 'crap' but he is at least not 'crapper' then Ali.
      So why do u care?

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      • Honza says:
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        [ip2username: Dibu Waby]
        #5247 Honza (2012-10-31st)

        Ali is maybe worse than Wlad and Vitali but he is still ten times better than Mormeck.

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        • Tommo says:
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          [ip2username: Puga Lyxo]
          #5616 Tommo (2013-03-24th)

          I haven't seen Mormeck fight to compare but I agree that Wlad should not be conferred with the all time top position alone since the competition between him, Lennox and Vitali is so close it is hard to call. You would have to statistically put Wlad on top only by a few points but in a real match this would be quite meaningless to decide the winner.

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  • ian says:
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    [ip2username: Xeni Suda]
    #5564 ian (2013-03-19th)

    BEAUTIFUL PIECE , AGREE WITH EVERYTHING , WLAD IS A FREAK.GOAT GREATEST OF ALL TIME.
    ONLY LENNOX WOULDVE GIVEN HIM A VERY TOUGH FIGHT , SO WLAD VITALI ANF LENNOX ARE THE BEST 3 HEAVIES BY A COUNTRY MILE IN HISTORY

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  • ian says:
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    [ip2username: Xeni Suda]
    #5565 ian (2013-03-19th)

    THE FUNNIEST THING I HAVE READ IS THAT FRASER WOULD BEAT EITHER KLIT, STYLES MAKE FIGHTS AND FRASER WOULD BE A SITTING DUCK FOR EITHER KLIT, KO RND 1 OR 2 . SAME RESULT AS WHAT HAPENED WHEN FOREMAN BEAT FRASER . ALI WOULD BE A SIMILAR STORY. EVEN BIG GUYS FAIL TO PENETRATE THEIR DEFENSE.
    ALI WOULD RUN OUT OF IDEAS QUICKLY AND ULTIMATELY GET KNOCKED THE f*ck OUT.

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    • Tommo says:
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      #5801 Tommo (2013-03-30th)

      Agreed, most valid synopsis!! :)

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  • Tommo says:
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    [ip2username: Puga Lyxo]
    #5591 Tommo (2013-03-23rd)

    I believe Wladimir is h2h p4p either the best or very best of all time. His brother in his prime (he is beginning to get past it now) also deserves this recognition. Despite slightly lower stats than Wladimir and slightly worse defense he has no clear losses (both from injuries while he was winning pointwise, not from ko)and has never been off his feet in a professional boxing match. And Lennox Lewis also deserves to be alongside them at the very top, having defeated Vitali and every HW of his era which was very modern and highly competitive, avenging both losses. You should probably not over promote Wladimir as much as you do even if he is the all time greatest because you do give an overwhelmingly biased impression on a blog which is supposed to remain purely objective however (just saying). Anyhow they are clearly a tier above their predecessors like Tyson, Holyfield and Bowe who could compete with them but are not truly on the same level and in a totally different class altogether than anyone from the 70s era or previous which would not be able to compete with such large/talented/trained opposition.

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    • Tommo says:
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      #5592 Tommo (2013-03-23rd)

      Having said the above I believe 3 other HW's deserve to be mentioned for various reasons. George Foreman for the reasons you have mentioned in other articles was too unrefined and undergunned to succeed against the top 3 above but were in not for his idiotic performance against Ali he would have wiped out the golden age division and probably gone down as one of the greatest champions ever. Joe Louis who already earns that distinction may have been too small to compete with the 3 above but pioneered the boxer/puncher style and defeated just about every type of fighter large or small and could conceivably been competitive many decades later in the "golden age", he is one of the only ancient boxers that would have remained competitive for so long after his reign. And finally Mike Tyson who at one time was the most skilled swarming fighter who ever lived, his failings a combination of the size of his opposition and personal problems.

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  • Tommo says:
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    [ip2username: Jaky Ope]
    #5927 Tommo (2013-04-06th)

    Ok Wladimir best ever huh. I like your very generous article toward Wladimir but it is far from convincing that he is the GOAT. Let's leave Vitali out of the picture for now.

    Wladimir Klitschko VS Lennox Lewis.

    The superfight of both sensibly appraised h2h prime4prime GOATs. Dominant champ of prev era against dominant champ of this one. How can we with the records, stats and more importantly in this case the observations we can make of their fights determine anything about who might have the advantage in this one? So difficult to reach any clear conclusions. They're both such supreme boxers. Critical issue. MUST have devoted article written for site's cred, first and foremost!

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    • Honza says:
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      #6056 Honza (2013-04-15th)

      Also Tommo he is saying that best champions of all time are both Klitschkos (Thus if you want to be picky about it the answer to "Who is the best heavyweight boxer of all time" might not be a single boxer but "The Klitschko brothers") but in all other articles he is saying that Lewis and Wlad are the two best. Kinda strange logic. I would love two articles: Riddick vs. Vitali and Wlad vs. Lennox. :)

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      • Tommo says:
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        #6060 Tommo (2013-04-16th)

        I wonder if he's somewhat admitting that Lennox ranks higher than Vitali but doesn't want to injure the name Klitschko lol. I think you had it right when you described Vitali's best fights, Lennox should be given credit over him for his total body of work. I am not sure that Wladimir faced the more decent opponents than Lennox either. Not saying he didn't but Lennox has a lot of proven champs on his resume whereas a lot of Wladimir's "unbeaten" wins were against guys that didn't fight the other contenders like we've discussed elsewhere, bit of a gay situation today it must be said.

        I would be happy to see ANY new article to be honest lol. Where the hell is admin? This site was very active for awhile, now it appears nearly abandoned :( Hope admin hasn't died lol, he should atleast leave the site and his tables to us in his will haha :)

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        • Honza says:
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          #6063 Honza (2013-04-16th)

          I will try to lure him out :). WLAD IS A BIGGEST BUM OF ALL TIME. HE HAS A GREATEST RECORD OF ALL BUM BEATERS. HE WOULD BE DECIMATED BY ALL PAST CHAMPIONS. VITALI WAS SUCH A COWARD THAT HE QUIT DURING HIS FIGHT WITH BYRD WHO WAS 7 INCHES SMALLER. THAT IS WHY HATERS CALL HIM QUITALI. BOTH BROTHERS SUCK.

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        • Tommo says:
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          [ip2username: Xupa Gyko]
          #6067 Tommo (2013-04-16th)

          Hahahaha awesome!!! That rocked mate!! If that didn't work he mustn't have paid his internet bill or something!! =P

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          • Honza says:
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            [ip2username: Xisu Napy]
            #6073 Honza (2013-04-16th)

            nOT ONLY THEY COULD BE BEATEN BY ALL OTHER PREVIOUS CHAMPS. BUT THEY WOULD BE BEATEN WITHIN A FIRST ROUND. :)

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            • Tommo says:
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              [ip2username: Xupa Gyko]
              #6078 Tommo (2013-04-17th)

              WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO: SANDERS BITCH! ONE DIMENSIONAL FIGHTER- JAB JAB JAB… AND MAYBE JAB LOL

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              • Honza says:
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                #6080 Honza (2013-04-17th)

                WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO LOOKS LIKE A BUM EVERYTIME HE BOXES. HE SUCKS BIG TIME AND VITALI IS EVEN WORSE!!! LOL

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  • Tommo says:
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    #6125 Tommo (2013-04-21st)

    Boytsov, Helenius, Pulev, Povetkin, Wilder, Haye rematch. Or even Ustinov, Fury, Chisora. Why is Wlaimir fighting guys like Mormeck when he has plenty of prospective fights to consider. Whether they are up to the scratch or not they are (A) Mostly unbeaten, (B) Physically impressive atleast. Lewis, Holyfield, Ali, Holmes, even Tyson fought the best available contenders of their era. I think Wladimir is the best of his era but fighting an oaf like Wach or an aged cruiser like Mormeck instead of the above mentioned guys and their like isn't doing anything for his legacy. Come on Wlad, your getting lazy. Time to make a clean sweep of the board. If he can do it as surely as it appears he can then lets get these fights on! It's annoying enough there isn't a clear frontrunner to upset Wlad but skirting around fighting the best prospects isn't helping his situation either. Starting to get disenchanted with our Ukrainian champion.

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    • Tommo says:
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      [ip2username: Xupa Gyko]
      #6126 Tommo (2013-04-21st)

      He hasn't even beaten Arreola or Adamek yet, just because his brother spanks a fighter doesn't put that win on his record also.

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      • Honza says:
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        [ip2username: Gajy Xode]
        #6128 Honza (2013-04-21st)

        We are just a few days from his fight with that italian guy (Pianeta?). That does not seems as good choice for oponent. But on the other hand maybe Wlad is so much better than other guys who fight today that it does not matter who will face him next time. I would love to see Haye rematch or even more Vitali vs. Haye. You already mentioned worthy oponents. Good match would be Fury vs. Wlad. It would be battle of giants. It would be probably first time when I would cheer for Wlad against british fighter. I disagree with Chisora Tommo because I got feling that he is already too washed up. too many looses against good oponents (kinda remind me Bert Cooper). I still have some hopes that Deontai will be the next big champion. Of course big match would be Vitali vs. Wlad but you know they will never face each other. They promised their mother that they will not do it. Just as Lewis promised his mother to retire and get laughed by Vitali (Now who is talking?:)) because of that.

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        • Tommo says:
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          [ip2username: Xupa Gyko]
          #6131 Tommo (2013-04-22nd)

          Yeah lol I do see what you mean now about Vitali. I used to just think Lennox was a bit of a sook when things didn't go his way but now the shoe's on the other foot they are both as bad as each other lol. The reason I mentioned Chisora in the 2nd lot was because of that reason Honza. But he is powerful and had some moments against Vitali so although it's a long shot it's a possibility. The main reason I think that fight would generate some interest is because of the water spitting thing lol I reckon the hate alone would make it watchable lol. Pianetta well he's tall and all that but I don't just don't think he's really strong enough to take too many of Wlad's straight rights. Imo he will get knocked out (but in true Wlad style we will have to wait several rounds for Pianetta to eat a million jabs first lol). I really want him to fight Boytsov and Pulev. I would like to see is some aggressive, powerful swarming fighter might penetrate Wlad. And of course Deontay is prime choice he just needs some more experience and defense coaching to polish him up and as I said elsewhere he needs to add 20lbs of muscle to his already racehorse physique. I really want Deontay to have the best possible chance of success :)

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  • Honza says:
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    [ip2username: Gajy Xode]
    #6129 Honza (2013-04-21st)

    Tommo did you ever see one of our favorite boxers (or any big boxer) for real? I never did but hope to one day see at least one of them. :)

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    • Tommo says:
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      #6132 Tommo (2013-04-22nd)

      No mate, I've never been out of Aus except for honeymoon to Thailand :( And so far I've not heard of any of my favourites coming over here for vacation to chase down an autograph lol. Unfortunately my favourites are retired now and getting on a bit so might have lucked out there :( Can't say anybody today really compares to Holy, Mike or Riddick for me. I would still be keen to get a Lennox or Klitschko signature though.

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      • Honza says:
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        #6133 Honza (2013-04-22nd)

        Me too man. I would like to see my favorites but I would not mind today big names. Actually Germany is our neighbour country so it is not that hard to see Klitschkos maybe :). I would liekto see Muhammad the most but I would probably cry because of his state. I was very sad when I saw him on Joes funeral. He looked very bad :(.

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        • Honza says:
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          #6134 Honza (2013-04-22nd)

          And same as you my favorite boxers are also gone (in retirement). I think it is always like that you have some favorites and those remains champions for you. I also think that after Wladimir will retire I will feel kinda nostalgic that another great boxer left the show. Favorite boxers are coming and leaving. It is just like that. :)

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  • ian says:
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    [ip2username: Xyto Wesi]
    #6168 ian (2013-05-09th)

    some of the comments on here are absurd and laughable, some idiot states above that haye was competitive with Wlad in their fight , these morons obviously have no clue about boxing, wlad totally outclassed haye , completely dominant, if one fighter refuses to engage and just run all night which is what haye did then that's usually the outcome, I mean I could fight someone way superior and just run and stay clear of him.That is why there was no knockout, idiots.

    Wladimir and Vitali are the GOATS for sure , only heavyweight in history that could have a chance would be Lennox Lewis.

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    • Honza says:
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      [ip2username: Katy Noze]
      #6348 Honza (2013-07-19th)

      Yeah you are right. Klitschkos are so great that I always forgot to talk when I see them. :) Tommo please help. I was for the secon time attacked because I have no clue about boxing. Wlads accuracy percentil in fight with Haye was 26% and Haye was 25%. Incredible dominance. :)

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    • Tommo says:
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      #6378 Tommo (2013-07-28th)

      Yeah I see what you mean Honza,

      Sorry Ian but Wlad has been openly criticised as well for his performance against Haye. Funny haters from both camps criticise one or the other for almost exactly the same things!

      Wlad was very cautious just like Haye. Rightly so too because Haye hits very hard as well as Wladimir and whilst I don't think their chins are that bad neither has a "granite chin".

      Haye displayed excellent reflexes in that fight evading such a large proportion of Wlad's offense as is evident in the punch stats. It is Wlad who should be criticised on his accuracy!

      I think like Honza that Haye won more rounds than he was given credit for. Wladimir DEFINITELY won the fight on volume and the knockdown scored, on that I am not in dispute.

      But if you want to discredit Haye's performance in that fight Ian you should focus first on his workrate which is the most obvious thing that cost him the fight. Whether he could have won with a higher output or not is not the point.

      Haye was definitely Wlad's hardest fight since Peter and there was no dominance! Labelling us as knowing nothing of boxing for having an opinion that is shown clearly in the punch stat anyway is a bit rich.

      It's ok to be a one eyed Wlad fan but discrediting his best opponents only really serves to make Wlad a bum beater!

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  • Honza says:
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    [ip2username: Kitu Nagy]
    #6369 Honza (2013-07-27th)

    I just rewatched match between Vitali and Chris Byrd and I have to apologize. Yes it is true that Vitali was winning clearly. I would give him 6 rounds and Byrd 3 or 2 (one being even). My father also watched it. We both agreed that Vitali was simply running away from Byrd attacks. Byrd was dodging them. So I really do not know where all those guys have their prove of Vitali being a warrior. He is not and never was. Interestingly even that Vitali was winning over Byrd his percentil was always worse then Byrds. :)

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    • Tommo says:
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      #6377 Tommo (2013-07-28th)

      My take is Vitali CLEARLY won nearly every round against Byrd. He did not approach that fight however with the intent to stop him like Ibeabuchi approached Byrd however. Imo Merchant was correct this time around in asserting that Vitali "did not show a championship mentality" both in the way he boxed Byrd and in that he quit so close. He could have won the fight without having to land another single punch!

      You can clearly see however, the difference in Vitali from this fight in which he was over cautious in all fairness not because he was afraid of Byrd's punches but because he knew that Byrd could steal rounds if he was not) and the fight with Lennox which he was far more aggressive. This fight encouraged him and the trend continued for a time afterward, particularly against Kirk, after which he gradually settled back into his more measured pace.

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  • Tommo says:
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    #6379 Tommo (2013-07-28th)

    Ian you seem to be a complete Wlad nuthugger judging by your posts.

    Whilst I am usually in agree with his performance being special and do in fact rank him near the top, same with Vitali, I have to say despite Wlad having the better HW record due to having more fights I still edge a prime Lennox Lewis to beat either Klitschko in a match. Just splitting hairs but I think Lennox's own skills and dimensions are enough to negate Wlad's advantages and his extra aggressiveness and tools will earn him victory imo.

    We seen what a fat, unconditioned Lewis after more than a year off who only had just ovwer a week, A WEEK! To prepare for the fight did to a PRIME Vitali. Imagine what a peak and ready Lewis could do!

    Besides Lewis I think there are several other boxers who could potentially get Lewis.

    Evander Holyfield's performance against Lewis, particularly the second meeting and his wars with Bowe convinced me he would be highly competitive with the Klitschko's when prime.

    Riddick Bowe himself is also of sufficient quality when prime (92) to potentially beat the Klitschko's In fact he performed better against Holyfield in 92 when Holy was prime than Lewis did against a more aged Holy.

    Mike Tyson I see when prime having great chances to breach the Klitschko's defences with his speed and movement and land some devastating shots that are certainly hard enough to hurt them, put them off balance and maybe knock them out. Based on Chisora pushing Vitali to a decision and Samuel Peter knocking Wlad down several times and keeping him off balance entire fight I think the much faster and more skilled Tyson could potentially do better.

    And so it is not stupid to consider the Klitschko's beatable because it is far from entirely clear that they would beat these guys

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    • Tommo says:
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      #6380 Tommo (2013-07-28th)

      *potentially get Wlad or Vitali sorry, not Lewis :)

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      • Honza says:
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        #6390 Honza (2013-07-28th)

        Again I have to thank you for support Carl. You are good teammate :). Only think I have to say is that even you are right that Vitali was more agressive against Lewis he ran like sissy (sorry for vitali lovers) when he got tagged by few heavy shots from Sanders. When he carefully beat him up he started to look like a warrior (maybe) Have you ever seen Riddick, Evander, Mike or even Lenny ran from oponent across the ring? I havent :).

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        • Honza says:
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          #6397 Honza (2013-07-29th)

          I think Larry Holmes would be good chalenge for Klitschkos. He had great chin (one tko loss from 75 fights), courage and one of the best jabs. I also thought Golota would be good oponent but then again he was never able to fight well under presure. When he got floored for the first time he just use low blow combo. That was not very nice. But I am not saying he would not have any chance let alone punch Klitschkos to the groin. :D

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          • Tommo says:
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            [ip2username: Loze Xivu]
            #6398 Tommo (2013-07-29th)

            Yeah Larry Holmes certainly has a case. Some say his fight with Witherspoon should have gone the other way but fact is he can fight with tall and hard punching guys and do well.

            I think Golotta would be good opponent for any boxer. He is very heavy built and has decent skills as evidenced by the Bowe fights. Of course his blow out loss to Lewis leaves a big if over him though. He always seemed to blow his title shot one way or another lol.

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    • ian says:
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      #6556 ian (2013-11-12th)

      vitali wasnt in his prime , lewis was in his prime , vitali took the fight on a very short notice and still dominated lewis , lewis was very very lucky to have survived that fight , lewis would have been knocked out for sure. a very fit and conditioned lewis gave vitali everything he had and vitali did not even flinch , hell corey sanders had more power than lewis . the fact that lewis would have made millions for a rematch and still did not give him a rematch speaks volumes and tells a story .
      lewis knew that vitali bossed him and would have won easily had he had more time to prepare for the fight.

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      • Honza says:
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        #7065 Honza (2014-03-19th)

        So Ian Vitali was not in his prime? Then when he was? And it is not true that he was not hurt by Lewis punches. Vitali himself admitted that Leiws uppercut in sixth round almost lift him of the canvas. And if you watch closely the sixth round than you would see that Vitali got pumelled pretty well on the end. It WAS VITALI who was lucky to not got down in that round. Lewis was lucky in the second. And Vitali also used his best to ko Lewis and could not do it. They both took that fight on short notice but Vitali wanted that fight like anything else. Manny Steward said that Vitali was fighting like possessed that night and it is true. He never fought better. Lewis on the other hand seemed surprised that Vitali is better than he expected. And no Sanders is not better puncher than Lewis. Taht is not true. But it seems that does not matter for you. It is sad to see my namesake be such a one sided Klitschko nuthugger.

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  • Honza says:
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    #6391 Honza (2013-07-28th)

    Just for a fun I counted first round koes of Muhammad Ali, Mike, George, Holy, Lennox Lewis, Klitschkos, Joe Louis and Schmeling. I have a book about them and there are whole stats about their pro career. So who had most KO1: Mike(20), George(15), Joe louis(12), Wladimir and Schmeling(10), Vitali(7), Lennox Lewis(5), Evander and Mohama(2). Those are just first round koes but still. It is satisfiing to see how great fast finisher was Mike and George also :).

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    • Tommo says:
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      #6400 Tommo (2013-07-29th)

      I am surprised to see Wladimir has so many KO's in 1st round. I think he was more aggressive in his early career before the Sanders KO caused him to adopt the more cautious style. These days it's pretty unlikely to see another 1st round KO from him against any opponent.

      Sometimes I think Wlad is being a bit stupid not going for it early, in particular when his opponent is not really a power puncher. I think there is a case against him that he may have lost the ability to pounce on his opponents. This is why I liked Lennox's fights much better. Sometimes he could just destroy his opponents.

      I had to laugh when Manny told him off for not being aggressive enough against Chambers when Eddie was only fighting back weakly. He could have finished Chambers much earlier imo. Almost like he was TRYING not to KO him lol.

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      • Honza says:
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        #6402 Honza (2013-07-29th)

        Yes Wlad was more agressive before Manny trained him that safety first style. He was just a little less agressive then young Lennox. Lennox was more agressive whole carrer and was able fight on inside. Something Klitschkos were not able to do in any fight. But they always had better defence then Lennox. Just finished reading on boxrec about Riddick. 11 first round koes. Hurray. :)

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  • Chadd says:
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    [ip2username: Galy Vode]
    #7709 Chadd (2014-11-25th)

    It's just amazing how dumb and blind some of the so called experts can be. Here you have a fighter who has barely lost a round with the only losses coming via medical stoppage where he was ahead. Name… ONE SPORT WHERE THE ATHELETES AND THIER RECORDS HAVE NOT IMPROVED…athletes continue to get bigger, stronger and BETTER. Yes, Ali was a great one but physically not up to today's more robust standards….let's face it once and for all, things are moving forward here just like any other physical sport and guess what.. :-D boxing is the most physical of all of them!

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  • gconeyHiden says:
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    #7896 gconeyHiden (2015-06-11th)

    tHIS IS ALL so MUCH bs. dAVID hAYES WHO IS NOT EVEN CLOSE TO THE LEVEL OF ALI did well defensively but didnt know how to attack. ALI NOT ROBUST. your kidding me. ALI jabs could cut the bros. up. yeah they are big..maybe SUPERHEAVYWEIGHTS but only east Europeans are going to be crazy enough to talk this BS. Heavyweight boxing is pretty dead right now.

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    • Fritzenheimer says:
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      [ip2username: Vula Mywo]
      #7910 Fritzenheimer (2015-07-12th)

      Ali would be way too small in the fist to do any appreciable damage to WK.

      I watched fully half of Ali's career. He was a great fighter, but only when measured within the bubble of his own time. And that time was long past when TYSON showed up… let alone these modern monsters !!
      He was a smaller, weaker version of David Haye, and fought in a primitive era with the enormous advantage of the media on his side.

      Also it's very curious that the old Eastern Bloc was barred from competing in those days, but as soon as competition became global, HW American boxers almost instantly became 2nd and 3rd tier.
      It had already been clear for a very long time in the Olympics that the rules were flat biased in professional boxing.

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  • Honza says:
    [ip2username: Luka Vyko]
    #7953 Honza (2015-11-29th)

    So it is finally here. Your beloved fighter finally lost. Nobody is perfect and I believe that fight with Fury was borefest but Wlad lost fair and square. He is getting old. And guess what he still lost to Briton so all those claims about eastern europe superiority are questionable. Actually Klitschkos could be consider best eastern fighters and they never lost to Russians, Polands or another Ukrainen. But of course Americans are 2nd tier. Guess who has WBC belt? :)

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